Greg: Welcome to the Tim Faller Show, where production is paramount and we discuss the tools, time and people associated with getting jobs done and making a profit.

Greg: On today’s episode of The Tim Faller Show, Tim and I will be talking about on site visual communication, the whiteboard alongside Tim Faller your co-host Greg Woleck. Here is the Tim Faller show.

Tim: Everyone, Tim Faller here and welcome to the Tim Faller Show. As I always do, just going to encourage you to send in topics, ideas, anything you’d like to hear us on on this show. Send it to me at Tim at remodelers advantage dot com. So way back in the late eighties and early nineties is when I started talking about job site management.

Tim: Originally it was about lead carpenters since have migrated more to project managers, but continuing the discussion of lead carpenters, I was doing a seminar in the Washington, D.C. area and I can’t really remember exactly what the context was. But in that seminar, a lead carpenter from the Anthony Wilder Company shared that they used white boards on their jobs and they were broken up into segments and different topics and different parts of the white board.

Tim: And they also shared that at the bottom of that whiteboard, they had little boxes where they could keep expendable things like pencils and razor blades and all kinds of other things that would save somebody a trip to the truck. Now, they gave me a picture of that, and I’ve used it in many, many presentations over the years because I feel like the whiteboard is a great way to communicate on site.

Tim: So a few weeks ago I got an email from a company not too far from here in Shrewsbury, Massachusetts, that sells white boards. They manufacture for hospitals, industry, all kinds of different people, white boards that are laid out exactly as they want them to be. Now, it’s a little annoying to get these sales emails, but it was perfect timing for me because I got to thinking about like, we’ve never really talked about the white board on this this program.

Tim: And so I asked Greg if we could just do this as him and I chatting back and forth about it. The company that contacted me was the Optima companies in Shrewsbury, Mass. In case you want to get in touch with them about about what they do. So the other thing that’s happened to me recently is my wife spent a couple of days in the hospital and I noticed when I walked into her room that there was a white board on the wall with certain cells, if you will, for information, things like the doctor’s name, the nurse on calls, name, things like that.

Tim: That would be important to anybody walking into that room and seeing that. And they would know immediately something about the care for my wife. Now, the specifics of her condition were not listed there. That’s not for public consumption. That’s not for guests coming in. The nurses would already know that because they they hold that position. But there’s information on that white board that really makes it effective.

Tim: So all this got me to thinking about all the technology we have, you know, all the Google stuff that’s out there. And maybe the white board is an amazing and effective tool for us on site. So my co-host Greg came to remodelers advantage after having been a project manager for some pretty large projects in Connecticut and I know and you’re going to hear from him that he’s a great technology buff.

Tim: He loves the computer, he loves tablets, but I know he has some experience with on site visual communication and particularly the white board. And so we’re going to be talking about that and hopefully it’ll give you some ideas about how this may help you. So, Greg, why don’t you start this off by just giving the listener an idea about your experience with, you know, visual communication on site, but particularly the white board?

Greg: Yeah. So a very long time ago, probably after the first time I ever heard you speak, Tim, on jobs, remodeling jobs especially great way to communicate with the client. I’d put up this Sometimes it’s a whiteboard, sometimes with a corkboard with paper, but it was a like 24. By 36 I used to highlight what’s going to happen this week, what’s going to happen next week to the to the corkboard.

Greg: I would actually attach a notepad. So if homeowners wanted to leave notes for me, kind of good thing I could keep a record of it. I, I remember doing this other job. This was this was maybe a decade ago. It was I was doing two spec houses right next to each other. I set up this huge four big sheet of plywood and it was still wasn’t quite a whiteboard, but it served the same purpose.

Greg: I would staple little four by six cards. I could communicate. That wasn’t so much for the homeowner as it was for me as the site supervisor or the client who happened to be the owner of my company at the time. We could we could discuss what had to happen at this job versus this job and where we were.

Greg: And then, you know, as I went on, we would use visual communication in general. I like to post the schedule. Not always. I know you’re not always a fan of the full schedule, but I like to have that stuff up there. But also we talked about this a little bit already. I like to take my my sheets, my drawings, put them under a piece of plexiglass, some kind of laminate, and then have a bunch of dry erase markers and they can have a discussion with the H that contractor and the plumbing contractor, and we can discuss using colors where they’re going to work, how it’s going to, you know, play out so people aren’t stepping

Greg: on top of each other now, works well on a big job. Know, maybe maybe, you know, you’ve told the story about drilling a hole while the electrician is is pulling wires. But I think I think even in that situation, a whiteboard is the perfect tool. So what do you think makes the White board a good communication tool?

Tim: Well, again, going back to my experience at the at the hospital and I’ve I’ve this email that came to me. I looked at some of the samples that they had and I was it was really fun to see different industries having different types of formats, and they’re being used everywhere, even though technology is, you know, in right in front of us all the time.

Tim: And there’s at least three things that I think are really key to having a structured whiteboard. In other words, this is not just a whiteboard that everybody scribbles on, but it’s a whiteboard that has, for lack of a better term, cells that you fill in. And so the first ones being that everybody can see these things, in other words, you can get information out there that everyone needs to see.

Tim: Now, again, with the hospital situation, there’s some information that they’re not going to put on there. And the same thing would be true of the whiteboard. In other words, no one should ever write having trouble with the client. Wish they would go away for a week. You know, it’s like you don’t want everybody to see that. You don’t want the client certainly, or your trade contractors to see that.

Tim: But what are the things that everybody needs to see? And then the other thing the second thing I think is that I think there are some basic informational needs that everybody has that are that you don’t have to spend a lot of time talking about in a meeting. So, for example, everybody in a weekly meeting where the client talks about schedule, how are we doing on the schedule or wouldn’t it be kind of fun if part of your whiteboard had a block for schedule and maybe said, you know, plus five days right now, maybe we need to talk about why that five day why we’re going over by five days.

Tim: But but at least it’s up there and everybody can see that. And sees it as an important topic. I think detailed task list for your trade contractors also fits in here. I used to do this on paper when a sub showed up at a job. I had a list of everything they had to do before I would pay them.

Tim: Right. It it wasn’t just assumed that they understood everything. And then the third thing that I think is really cool about these structured whiteboards is it forces you to fill in the blanks so that you don’t forget some kind of communication information. And so if you have to put something in each of those, you know, six or eight different cells on that whiteboard, then it makes you think about that topic.

Tim: So if you have to fill in where we are on the schedule, you’re thinking about the schedule. If you have to fill in, What does the plumber need to complete by the end of today? Then you’re processing that information as opposed to just hoping that they remember it. So I really like the idea of the structured whiteboards. Obviously things are going to change, but also then the cell can be filled in.

Greg: So you made me think of something. I have a colleague of mine, a previous colleague of mine up in Vermont, and she would actually have these whiteboards from, I don’t know, the dollar store or something this little, you know, eight and a half by 11 whiteboards. And she would fill those out and hand those to the trade partners.

Greg: So they had that documentation. Now, not quite as visual as there’s a giant board, but I think like that was that the light bulb just went on and I remember her telling me that. And then also another light bulb moment. But wouldn’t it be great if we had a spot on this whiteboard that said we’ve added ten days because of change orders for ten days because of indecision or something, maybe worded a little more politely, but just something like that.

Tim: Wow. Yeah, that would be that would be incredible. And I think, you know, again, these little I’m I’m everybody out there, we’re just talking about these little little whiteboards for the first time here. But I’m looking at them going like especially on a bigger project, like they hang on the door of each room, tasks that need to be completed in this room before closeout.

Tim: What an amazing completion list. In other words, it’s not 100 items on a piece of paper. Maybe it is, you know, for documentation, but each room would get a list or maybe each section of the house. I’m really like in this smaller white board thing for that very direct communication about what can happen. And again, I’m thinking about it room by room, because if you’ve got a big project, I mean, I’m sure you know this, Greg, there’s there’s always something in each of the rooms that has to be done.

Tim: And then when you can legitimately cross those things off or erase those things, they’ve been inspected. The whiteboard comes down, or maybe it says complete and you’re all set down for your final walk with the client. So that’s a very, very cool idea. So one of the things that I’ve been thinking about with the white board is the concept of lean and lean is a hot topic in our world.

Tim: There are some parts of the Lean principles that fit very, very well with what we do. Others are a little bit more difficult because there are more manufacturing sorts of environment. But I’m just wondering about like from your perspective, Greg, what are some of the ways that a white board and or other visual communication, it might be a poster board or something like that might play into the lean concepts?

Greg: Yeah. So there’s, you know, a simple tool like a Post-it note, different color as a Post-it notes. We can stick those to the white boards and they can identify something. It could be, I was thinking about your the lead carpenter who shared the materials so there could be some sort of trigger that says when when it’s read, that stuff has to get ordered.

Greg: You put a red posted on and things like that. I have a kit that has a bunch of these magnetic titles and and arrows and, you know, different things like red for alert and things like that. That you can also use on a magnetic whiteboard that will help you see things. So so that is one of the key things about lean is is it’s very much about visual as much as it is about value.

Greg: It’s about being visual. And like you said earlier, maybe there are things that we don’t have to talk about it. We can see it. And in it I’m going to use a manufacturing example, But you know, there’s a there’s a red tag or there’s something that says we’re out of this particular bolt or we’re out of I mean, in our in our own world, we don’t have still seal.

Greg: So here’s the red tag that says that the trailer is missing. Still know someone has the job to look through that. And again, this is all part of the visual very much in in lean, there’s this concept of what they call swim lanes. It’s where you’re putting these lanes on your on your board. And each each lane represents, you know what what they call in lean a backlog or what they call in progress or done or like a constraint, like something that’s holding you up and you have all these columns.

Greg: And again, it’s so visual, you can see it. There’s a Post-it note or there’s one of these magnetics in there. Whoever’s accountable for that task can see that it needs to be addressed. And if you are accountable for that task, you’re not getting interrupted all the time. Someone asking you, do we have the nails, do we have the screws, Do we have the steel seal?

Greg: It’s visual and it’s clearly communicated.

Tim: Yeah. I’m sitting here thinking about like a sort of a schedule for the week and thinking about, like, the like you have the schedule for the week. You’ve got plumber, electrician, AC, maybe even two weeks, but there’s that red X on the day that says they have to be done. It’s a visually clear reminder to them that that’s their deadline.

Tim: It isn’t like we’ve got extra time and then you can couple that with what’s coming after. So I’m seeing that visual thing is really cool. One of the things that the Anthony Wilde or Lee Carpenter told me was that part of that whiteboard that they have was actually a spot where anybody on the job site could pick up a marker and say, order more two by fours or order more nails, or we’re going to be out of, you know, sell seal or glue or whatever it is.

Tim: And so it was not totally left up to the lead carpenter to know everything because they did some big projects. And so that lead carpenter might be trimming in two or three rooms. Somebody else is working on outside trim and they don’t know what they’re using up and what needs to be ordered. And so to communicate internally, they were they had this spot that said things that needed to be ordered.

Tim: Now, one of the other things they had that I thought was a pretty cool idea was what’s the closest hospital? Right? And so they would have literally on that whiteboard when the job started, closest emergency hospital in case somebody needed to be rushed off to the hospital. I thought, what a great idea, because who knows that stuff? If you lived this was in the Washington, D.C. area.

Tim: I lived in Prince George’s County. I didn’t know all the hospitals in D.C. And so if I went to work in DC as a carpenter, that would be pretty good information to know. So that’s kind of the thing that I really, really like about that kind of stuff.

Greg: Look, emergency water shut off panel. You know things lot. Well, I mean that alarm code the WHO to call when you when you set off the alarm because yeah that happens.

Tim: Yeah that that that’s great And I think there’s all that sort of standard staff that you don’t know. You need to communicate it until you need it and then it’s almost too late. Right. And so I think that’s a, that’s a those are good examples of those things that could be very easily put on a whiteboard or some other visual communication When a job starts and it stays right there for the entire job might need to move when drywall or plaster goes up or something like that.

Tim: But that’s a great illustration of that.

Greg: So, you know, you and I, we’re a couple of like DIY type guys, but you know, this company Optima, and I’m sure there are others, it sounds like they can customize graphics for you, but you know, what do you think the advantages of that is?

Tim: So I just got it. I got excited. I told you the email is a little annoying. I don’t like getting emails, sales emails and because I don’t have any need for this stuff and obviously I can opt out and all that kind of stuff. But I thought what was really cool looking at the product that they kind of put on their to say, Look, what we can do is the whole idea of the graphics being exciting.

Tim: In other words, you just put a white board on the job with black lines on it and the name of the client. It’s not it’s not fun, it’s not exciting. And I think clients would really enjoy seeing a white board that’s logo with your company logo. Maybe some of the blocks on the white board are outlined in red.

Tim: Like these are the critical thing that are, you know, need to be dealt with. But some kind of graphic representation. And I just thought that it would be a really cool way to make make this a lot more appealing and something that particular clients would be drawn to as a kind of like this company really cares and they’re putting a lot of effort into it.

Tim: So again, this is just my perception of it. I don’t have any scientific data that might go into that great.

Greg: You know, before you had mentioned again this whole visible thing and staying ahead of our trade partners when they’re coming on onto jobs and making sure we’re ready for them. And one of the things I know about scheduling is dependencies is what causes slip if we’re not ready with dependencies. And again, another just a great way to highlight who’s going to be there, what do we have to be ready for?

Greg: Everybody knows that it’s it’s it’s really, really obvious.

Tim: Yeah. I think one of the cool things I mean, one of the other things that that you could do, I mean, if you wanted to, you know, optimize so to speak, your whiteboard, you can use decals or magnets that get put on to the magnetic white boards. I just felt like the logos was really a very, very cool idea.

Tim: So standardization with a little bit of flexibility, it feels like that’s the key to too, this kind of thing. So, Greg, we’ve already mentioned a couple of things and maybe there’s a few more, but let’s let’s brainstorm just a little bit about what might be some things that are could go on to a white board that would, you know, make it a little bit fun, but also just to make sure that certain things are communicated.

Tim: We talked about, you know, water shot off. We talked about emergency code in terms of who do you call when you set off the alarm. We talked a little bit about the closest hospital or what might be some other things that that go in there.

Greg: Will potentially like deliveries, You know, So maybe the client is aware that they shouldn’t be parking in front of the garage that day because we’ve got a truck coming. Okay. Inspections. Good. Yeah. You know, the you know, we need the dog to be put aside for a couple of hours today. The inspectors are going to come in and assuming all goes well, we can leave the dog away from the inspector and things like that.

Greg: One of the things that when you shared with me that first visual and I made a joke about it, but it was the How are you feeling? Yeah, I know. I know you like that. Tell me more.

Tim: So that that was that really caught my eye. Everybody that’s heard me in the last couple of years knows that I’m really big on talking about the client experience. Not just satisfaction, but what is their experience. And I’ve joked in trainings about, you know, going to a weekly meeting with one of those one through ten sayings that says, like, how are you feeling?

Tim: Like there’s a frowny one on, you know, like frowning and crying on a one and like happy, delighted on the ten. And so one of the whiteboards that this company sent me as an illustration and now this was for a doctor’s office or a hospital, but they had those five faces on there. And the and the question was, how are you feeling?

Tim: And I went like, what a great thing to put on a job site whiteboard. So the client, when they come in at 6:00 at night and they’re looking around, they can grab that red marker and put like I’m on the on the two level here, you know, I’m circling this one. So when the project manager or lead carpenter comes in, they look at they go, we got to deal with something.

Tim: Something’s not right. And so you can proactively go to the client and say, Let’s talk about the number two face that you put on the on the board, or they continually circle the number five space and you can even set this up ahead of time like this is going to be there. We want you to market like every couple of days.

Tim: Let us know how you’re feeling through this experience. So I just thought like I never thought about that until this email comes through with this whiteboard on it. Obviously, for a hospital. But I think maybe, maybe something we can use in our world as well.

Greg: Yeah, I honestly responded to it facetiously, but I think it is an excellent, excellent idea and it’s an icebreaker. It takes a little pressure off the client to have to confront. You know, some of our clients are willing to confront and some are not. And the sooner we can find out that there is a problem, the quicker we can handle it in our roles as site managers and production manager.

Tim: Right. And I’m anticipating the conversation where I go to the client and I say, Hey, I see you came in last night. You circled that number two face like things, you know, not feeling so great about this project. And they go, no, I just had a bad day at work. And, you know, I was just feeling grumpy.

Tim: I was mad at my boss. And then my tendency because I’m a conflict avoider is to go, So you’re good. And they’ll go, Yeah, I’m good. But you know what? They circled that maybe for a reason or marked it for a reason. And I had need to have the guts to pull up my big boy pants and say, Wait a minute, you know what?

Tim: What did you really mean? There was something going on in that that marketing. And I just think it’s a little easier to express it maybe once we’ve made that initial discussion. And so, again, these are these are the little things that with a little bit of creative vanity, you can create an atmosphere or an opportunity for a client particularly, but also your trade contractors to give you better feedback.

Tim: And again, just having said that, many, many companies have trade contractors working on jobs when the supervisor is not right there. And so maybe there’s a section in there or tasks completed by a trade contract actor and that really all they have to do then maybe is take a picture of it, send it in or upload it, or it’s just there.

Tim: So when the supervisor shows up the next day, they can say, this is what they got done yesterday. But again, with a little bit of creativity, I think these whiteboards, particularly because you can erase them and change them easily, may be a great communication tool for some of this simple information. Now, I just want to emphasize that I don’t think well, let me put it this way.

Tim: Some of the more complex things that we have to talk to, trades about or clients about, don’t go on the whiteboard, right? They go into that meeting that we have either weekly or regularly with trades and so forth like that.

Greg: Absolutely. And just it’s another level of communication. You know, when you and I, when we we teach and talk to companies, I think every subject we talk about starts with better communication. And I believe this to be the truth here for sure.

Tim: All right.

Greg: So as what I will say, one thing I would like a graphic of a QR code. So when you take that picture, you can send that picture of the whiteboard to whoever needs it.

Tim: So yeah, that combined.

Greg: My tech in.

Tim: Yeah, that I know that combines a lot of different things. Yeah. I mean, the QR codes are spectacular. If you haven’t listened to that podcast that was done, I don’t know, six or eight months ago, you know, tune in to that because it’s a it’s a great way to engage technology. But you know what? We still need that information there.

Tim: So, Greg, as we wrap this up, just give us, you know, maybe a little nugget or maybe a little longer nugget of what like what do you hope people got out of this?

Greg: Well, being a person that does enjoy technology, I do see the value in in very much tactile, touching, writing, using your hand, that connection from your brain to the piece of paper or the whiteboard. I think it’s it’s super important. But I also believe that, you know, technology can be very expensive and the whiteboards are reasonable. You can get, you know, I don’t know what I don’t know what the custom ones cost.

Greg: But yeah, you know, it’s not a huge investment. And I, I know you’ll get the return on your investment within the first week of using that thing.

Tim: Yeah. And, and I think, I think it’s just a great way to communicate all those things that need to be communicated but are just small things. And again, going back to this idea of the water shut off, you know, the emergency codes, emergency information, things like that, that almost nobody communicates that to everybody on the job site. It’s talked about maybe in the pre-construction meeting, plumber, electrician, you know, those folks don’t get to hear that information.

Tim: So all those little things. And then again, I just go back to this idea of of putting a visual in front of the client to see how are they doing? How can you I mean, again, I’ve got this visual going on of there’s a face and their job is to put the mouth in. Is it smiling, is it frowning?

Tim: Is it halfway again, that might not take up as much space as the five spaces, but somehow communicating with the client to get that conversation about how they’re feeling kicked off a little bit more effectively.

Greg: All right. Well, if anyone wants to know what Tim and I talk about during the week, this is what we kick out about a lot. We this is just this is what makes our hearts beat, right? We love this stuff. But I want to thank you for joining us and listening to another episode of The Tim Flower Show.

Tim: And remember at the Tim Faller Show. And I think this is a great illustration of it. We are working really hard to eliminate. It is what it is from your vocabulary.

Greg: This has been another episode of The Tim Faller Show. Would you like to hire Tim or myself to help fast track your growth? Please send me an email Greg at remodelers Advantage Icon. For more information about our production manager and design manager roundtables to get more information about consulting for your team or if you’ve ideas for the podcast, please subscribe to the show comment on iTunes, Spotify, or wherever you listen to podcasts.

Greg: Thank you so much for listening.