Steve: On today’s episode of The Tim Faller Show, we will be talking about From carpenter to Owner to help us special guest Jared Thayer. Their construction and for balance work alongside Tim Faller. I’m your co-host, Steve Wheeler. Here is the Tim Faller Show

Tim: Hi, everyone. Tim Faller here, and welcome to the Tim Faller Show. I just want to continue to encourage you to send in ideas. today’s podcast is the result of somebody, sending in an idea to us, and we found a couple of guests, actually, that could help us with this. So, keep those ideas coming, and we’ll keep trying to sell them and get you the information that you’re wanting.

Tim: So, as I said a little while ago, a listener wrote in and said that they had a really small company, and he did everything now. You know, he sold. He estimated he was out on the job sites, and he was just wondering about how you moved from that role into the role of being the owner, where you have other people.

Tim: working for you now, this happens in stages. You know, it doesn’t. You know, I think sometimes we’d like it to go from today, I’m working in the field to now. I have ten employees and I’m doing $10 million of work. You know, it gets it. Just you kind of want to make those big jumps. But this kind of thing happens in stages.

Tim: It happens as you make small decisions that change the way things get done in the business. Every time you add a new person into the, equation, things have to change a little bit. And so it’s kind of fun today, to have somebody, to share some of that with us. Now, back in September 2020, we aired an episode with a fellow named Brad Soller in New Hampshire.

Tim: We got his view of how this all happens. And so we wanted to do episode two. And, so now we have a guest, but this time from the West Coast. It’ll be kind of interesting to see if there’s any differences. West coast, East coast, probably not a lot. Not not the way, you know, building things is a little bit different.

Tim: But Steve, there’s a lot, of lot of ground to cover today. So let’s get started.

Steve: Yeah let’s do it. So Jared there is the owner of Thayer Construction in beautiful Corvallis, Oregon. Jared started the company in 2014, in a garage at the age of 25. Since that time, he has made the transition from field to office twice. Welcome to the show, Jared.

Jared: Thank you for having me.

Tim: Hey, so give us a little more information about your business. what do you what’s your projected volume at this point? And maybe a little bit about just how you got to where you are now?

Jared: Yeah, sure. So we do design on home remodeling. right now we have seven employees. This year, we’re projected to hit, $1 million. and then. I’m sorry, what was what was the other part of that question? How I how I got here?

Tim: Yeah. Just a little bit about the history of the company. We know you started in your garage. that was about six years ago, I guess. And just a little, little bit of the pathway to get where you are now.

Jared: Sure. So, growing up, I did a little bit of remodeling with my grandpa, and my dad was in construction. Never, in a business. And so, we kind of had a little bit of sawdust in my blood, and, and after high school, got involved in it, between college. And then I met my wife. her dad was also a contractor, and he encouraged me to, start a business.

Jared: my dad said I was going to starve, and it was probably the worst thing that I could do. I’m glad that I had her dad to encourage me. and then, we we got it started and started doing property management type work. just to begin with, and then eventually started working into larger projects, which is what I wanted to do, larger, beautiful projects.

Tim: So isn’t it the spouse’s dad that’s supposed to tell you to be a banker or a lawyer or something like that, so you can provide, you know, for the for his little daughter or.

Jared: Yeah, probably if they’re a banker or a lawyer, they would encourage that.

Tim: There you go.

Jared: The contractor has done pretty well for himself down in California.

Tim: Okay, cool. So let’s just let’s get let’s jump right into this journey from, you know, working in the field to, you know, being out of the field now. When did you or maybe how did you determine that you wanted to go that direction? Because, for example, I have an older brother that will always be a carpenter. He will never have employees.

Tim: He will never, you know, do a, you know, $1 million worth of work. How did you make that decision to move from? I’m the carpenter craftsman to I want to be the business owner that has other people working for me.

Jared: Right. So, growing up with maybe not the best childhood, the the examples that I had for parents were something that I did not want to have. And so early on, I was like, how do I how do I figure out a way to to live a better life, not just day? I have done that, but but part of that is, is figuring out how to work to earn more money, and to to have a better career.

Jared: And so just early on, reading a lot of books about business, and then when we decided to start the construction company was always kind of knowing that I didn’t want to just be pounding nails for my whole life. and so just listening to a lot of audiobooks on how to actually build a business. yeah. Cool.

Tim: So what do you think are some of the hurdles that you’ve you’ve faced in actually building a business? What were some of the like things that, I don’t know, the wedges that threw in there, and you might’ve even said to yourself, oh, I didn’t realize this was going to happen. What what might be a couple of those.

Jared: Biggest thing has been staffing and like finding good people who you can trust to do the work. another thing that’s probably unique to me is just with me being so young, I don’t know everything. Maybe that’s an advantage because I have to seek out people who do know. but that’s been a struggle, is just not understanding everything compared to some folks who do.

Tim: Yeah. Yeah, I can see where that would be a challenge, but, but but you’re right. Maybe that idea of, So I have to have people that work for me, or at least trade contractors that know what they’re doing, because I don’t know everything. A lot of us get started that way. I joke sometimes about the way I got started.

Tim: Was I con somebody into letting me work on their house, you know, and and I figured it out as I went along. I was smart enough to ask questions and and also smart enough to figure a few things out. So that was kind.

Jared: I wouldn’t say that it’s conning people to work on their homes. I mean, I’m always upfront and say, look, I don’t know what the answer is, but I can find a guy who does know the answer. Yeah. and just being humble about that.

Tim: Yeah. That was that was me. I was the one. No, no, not. But I joke about it that way because in some ways, you know, we do have to have those first chances, you know, and we can’t know everything when we’re first getting, getting, going. So that’s really cool. So let’s talk about a couple of how did you choose as we as we move into this idea of getting moving from the field to the office.

Tim: So, tell it tell me this. How many people do you have working for you now?

Jared: Seven.

Tim: Wow.

Jared: Including myself and my wife. Okay. Know.

Tim: And how many are in the field doing the the construction?

Jared: Three in the field. And then we use a lot of subcontractors. Okay, three here in the office.

Tim: Okay, cool. So who was the is that is the first person you hired. The one who’s now, like your project manager.

Jared: So the first person that I hired that took me out of the field, I guess first, first hired was a helper. And that was great. it it’s difficult to scale with the helper because, I wasn’t able to just say, go do this. I’m going to go do some estimates. but the the first person that I hired that really was a game changer was a, great lead carpenter.

Jared: He he was significantly older than me. He was a spectacular carpenter. Like, you could just tell him to go build something. Then he would build it way better than me. And so when I brought him on, I. I was automatically kicked off the job site by myself and said, this guy is going to be able to do way better job.

Jared: And so, that was the real game changer for getting out and, I eventually ended up losing him. And and the guy who’s, doing production now is, in a sense, like the foundation that this, that he provides the stability on the job site that allows me to go out and perform the sales and estimating and other business functions.

Tim: So how did you go about finding these people when you when you decided you wanted somebody out there like, it nowadays of course, is pretty difficult. It hasn’t really changed a whole lot over the last five years. It’s been difficult for a while. How did you actually find these people that would help you do this?

Jared: You know, so the first time, I got really fortunate. I was out, canvasing a neighborhood, dropping off fliers. That’s what I did to get work to begin with. And I knocked on a house that looked like a job site dropped on off, and he wasn’t interested. but then later on, because he was a he was a contractor.

Jared: So later on, he sent me some work because he stopped being a contractor. And I went and I looked at that same person’s home where I dropped off the flier and at a site work. I was like, wow, this is just gorgeous. And I called him and I let him know that I was really impressed with his work.

Jared: And if he ever, you know, was was in need of a job, I’d love to work with him. And lo and behold, things didn’t work out with the union which he went and joined, and he came and, you know, started working with me. And that was wonderful. So luck there. this after he had left, we went through a period of trying to find somebody who’s able to fill the shoes, and it was really difficult.

Jared: I made some bad hires. and then I finally just dug in on the recruiting, trying to make our company attractive to others. and we found somebody out of Eugene, which is about a 45 minute commute every day. Who, was leaving a restoration company that was kind of in turmoil. And, he liked what we had to offer, and he’s just worked out spectacularly since then.

Jared: So a lot of recruiting luck and then a lot of recruiting and trying to work on building a business that somebody wants to join.

Tim: You know, it’s interesting that that you say that because I’ve been spending I spend a lot of time trying to convince people, look, you have to go out of your way to find people. You can’t just kind of hang out and wait for people to come to you. And so this is a great illustration, you know, going out, passing out fliers, you know, that was to get work, but you got employee out of it.

Tim: And then, and then I think your word was I dug into recruiting. And I love that phrase because that’s what that’s what we have to do these days to find the people that we want. So, That’s fantastic. So as you had these people on and how did you learn to trust them? Right. Because there’s a couple of the business owners are always telling me, like, I really care about customer service and I really care about money, right?

Tim: And when you put somebody else out in the field, number one, they’re the front line for customer service. And number two, they’re spending your money. Right. And so how did you learn to trust, the people that you had out in the out in the job to watch out for you, I guess is about the best way I can say it.

Jared: Yeah, we’ve been really fortunate with that. I’m a pretty trusting person. Like, I, I trust the people that we work with. And part of that comes into the recruiting. Like, we have to do a great job in recruiting to bring people in that are trustworthy, that are going to be good stewards of our money, that are going to take care of our clients.

Jared: And so, like, the people that we did bring on that didn’t work out, I trusted them and and it didn’t work out, you know. but with these both of these people, they they were great to trust with money. Jeff, our our current project manager. He’s, I think a pretty frugal person. And so, you know, he’s a he cares about that kind of stuff.

Jared: and he, you know, recognizes, that customer service is great. In fact, I think customers or clients enjoy working with him more than they enjoy working with me. Like, I get rave reviews that everybody loves working with him. Why? What’s the what’s the difference?

Tim: What is it about? You know, you don’t know.

Jared: You got to get him on your podcast. Because every single client that I talk to is like, oh my gosh, I love Jeff. Like he’s he’s just got this energy and this excitement. And, if there’s any business owners that are listening, you better not try to hire him away. but but that’s that’s been key is I can just wholeheartedly trust him.

Jared: I don’t check on what he’s doing. And maybe that’s not a sustainable model of management, of just hiring people and saying, have at it. but in this instance, it works because, he does a great job. It he, he knows what he needs to do. And. I.

Steve: So, Jared, you mentioned, getting pulled back into the field twice, and I assume that was after the first, the the older gentleman you mentioned who was the fantastic, carpenter. Now, you know, value in a company, sometimes we look at not being too reliant on, any one employee, any one customer, any one supplier.

Steve: So, did you learn something from kind of being reliant on that one? Carpenter. How did that transition happen and what did you take from that?

Jared: Yeah. I mean, that’s kind of the situation we’re in right now is we are reliant on Jeff. we’re still seeking another project manager not to, you know, replace him, but just so that we can take on more work. but that was that was a really painful experience, because when he was gone, I wasn’t able to deliver the level of service and quality that I had expected.

Jared: and then the clients who had hired as previously, when we talked about doing additional projects, it was like, I felt like I could deliver to their expectations as well. and so one of the lessons from that is just like when we approach recruiting, it’s when we make a hire, it’s not like we stop advertising for that position, like it’s like fishing, you know, you just got to keep searching for this person.

Jared: and so that’s, that’s what we’re trying to do is we’re trying to make sure we can not rely on just one person.

Steve: And just to follow up on that. You mentioned, you know, trustworthy. Obviously, that’s an incredible attribute for any employee. And you mentioned in your recruiting and you obviously being burned a few times, is that something that you feel you can just, that that has to happen as them being employees and seeing how they pan out? Or do you have questions or boxes that you check in the hiring process?

Jared: Lots of questions. I mean that that process is longer and extended and maybe not necessarily. Being a rule follower. I sometimes break the rules that make a mistake in hiring somebody on the spot. When I say. but yeah, I mean, some of the pain that I experienced earlier on made me develop processes to try to stop my own bad decisions.

Jared: and, and so, yeah, you know, there’s, there’s a whole process that goes into that.

Tim: So let’s chat to your question. Yeah, yeah. Following up on that, talking about processes and systems and stuff. How did how did all that change maybe even like project documentation, things like that. How did that change when you’re now having to hand off information to a project manager versus you’re going to be on site and make sure everything gets done the way you dreamed it up?

Tim: How did how did that change for you? And was that a fairly easy transition, or was that kind of hard to get used to making sure everything was in there so they knew what to do?

Jared: Yeah. in the first instance, he, him and I wouldn’t always see eye to eye on, you know what? I would estimate what he would do. But I couldn’t complain because he always did a better job than what I had said we were going to do. So it’s like, okay, the job took longer, but it’s it’s great. and then but but I’ve always created really detailed scopes of work.

Jared: Right. So that I can convey to the customer, look, this is what I have included this. And I do not mention anything about this over here. and then the same goes with the plan. That’s, that’s been subbed out to somebody else. And so as long as that’s, that’s the same the change orders, we’ve always for the most part done change orders.

Jared: but there’s been like just some front end communication of the project walkthrough, that we do like the pre-construction meeting. and also the project walkthrough to go through the estimate and make sure that I have another set of eyes looking at it. That was something that we’ve done in addition. and then production meetings as well, every week, checking in to make sure that I have a pulse on what’s going on with the job.

Jared: And I can remove whatever obstacles they have.

Tim: Yeah. So it’s a regular communication tool to to make sure that you’re in touch with what’s going on out there if you’re not, until you get to be, you know, I don’t know, maybe seven, eight, nine, $10 million, you’re probably always going to have to keep in touch with what’s going on, you know, out on the job sites and like you said, solve any problems or remove any barriers that might have popped up for your team out there.

Jared: Jeff makes it really easy for me to not go to the job site often, because they upload photos every day into Google Photos, and so I just look through those and do like written updates on occasion as well.

Tim: Wow. Yeah, you better make that statement again about anybody nearby not hiring Jeff, you know. So.

Jared: I know seriously.

Tim: I this is important people. Yeah. All right.

Jared: Not Jeff.

Tim: And we we’ll do a blackout to Corvallis and Salem and, Eugene. We’ll do a black out there, so be still.

Jared: Yeah. What? No, we do take very good care of him, though. so I was.

Tim: Wondering of the person. I was wondering what you’re doing to make sure that he hangs on and stays with you. Because especially in this market right now, people are aggressively, you know, going after other people’s employee and offering on the moon or even the.

Jared: Stars to get them right.

Tim: What what do you have in place to keep this great person on board?

Jared: Yeah. So, starting off, when I first met him, it was, you know, I was as pretty frank. It’s like, look, we’re a smaller company. I have these these goals and dreams of what I want to build, but we’re not there yet. and I, I love to have you on there, you know, to come in here at the ground floor and be with me on that journey.

Jared: since then, we’ve gotten health care, which is great. we’re starting up retirement at the end of the year. we do this sick days, right? but then also, he specifically requested that we do a vacation. So we’re doing five days paid vacation every year. and then along with that, paying him north of fare, giving him a company vehicle that he gets to commute his basically hour long commute each way, every day.

Jared: And so, you know, we pay for the gas for that. And just he, he takes care of me. And so I want to take care of him. Like, every time I think of, of this person who’s made my life, so much easier, I just want to shower him with with gifts and appreciation.

Tim: maybe people be calling you up, wanting to work for you.

Jared: Yes, please. we’re we’re very young. We’re growing. we would love to. We would love to continue growing and. Okay.

Tim: So, so. But but that does bring up an interesting question like how did you decide? I mean, spend six years or so that you’ve been in business maybe, maybe going on seven. How did you decide where you would start, like paying health care and how did how did you make those decisions with that? Strictly a financial decision where you said, you know, hey, we’ve we are now making enough money to pay some benefits or was it, you know what, we need to pay benefits.

Tim: Therefore I need to charge more so we can or some. I guess I’m just trying to figure out like because that’s a huge transition. I mean, that’s huge from being, you know, me out on the job site to actually paying for somebody else’s health care, right?

Jared: That’s right. Yeah. So the the health care part was it was a request, I guess, actually by our original, project manager. So that was even pre, pre current. and so we did that even though we weren’t necessarily extremely profitable. It was like this is important to take care of our people. and so I’m not necessarily one of those numbers people.

Jared: I just kind of say like I think we’re doing pretty good. And if we just build enough money into our jobs, then we should be able to make it work. My wife does the books and she kind of gives our stamp of approval, but we also do a pretty good job of saving. And so as long as we have enough money and savings, I feel comfortable, you know, making some of these investments and knowing even if we’re not necessarily profitable, cannot prove that we’re profitable right now, that there’s at least a buffer that we could raise our prices and get to that level.

Tim: yeah.

Jared: I was wondering, maybe that’s the best.

Tim: A little bit more about how did your pricing change when you started having employees was there? How did you make sure that you made the adjustments so that you were able to put some money away and savings and have that buffer, because that’s what the savings for. How do how did you change that?

Jared: That’s it’s funny. That’s like when I first went from being an employee and tuning of being a business owner, I went from like $15 an hour to 45 and I thought I was like, you know, robbing people, $45 an hour. And then, you know, bringing on employees, jumping from 45 to 65. And I wasn’t charging enough really to to be able to make that initial lead carpenter work.

Jared: Like, I should have raised my prices back then and he would have been able to stay. so to, to make that transition, I’m sorry, what was the question again?

Tim: I’m just wondering how you how you made that pricing transition. You know, you’re I mean, it’s not quite this dramatic, I know, but you stop and think about it. You’re out on the job site, you’re managing, you’re doing the work, and and there’s a certain amount of money in there for that. Now you’re off the job site. You still have to get paid, but now you’ve got somebody else on the job site that has to get paid.

Tim: So I’m just wondering how you made that transition. I like your I like your line of, you know, discussion there about you were here and but that wasn’t enough. And so you you moved it to here when you added somebody and that wasn’t enough. And so, if you can finish that line of thought, that’d be great.

Jared: Yeah. It’s just trying to charge, charge as much as possible that the market will bear, and then also trying to provide as great a service and quality as we can to justify what we’re charging. yeah.

Tim: Okay. So now you’ve you’ve mentioned lead carpenter and project manager, and I’m just wondering, you started with Lead Carpenter, but now as I understand it, Jeff is a little more of a project manager than a lead carpenter. Or is he? Because I’m just wondering how you chose to to go with the lead carpenter system versus a project manager system or the other way around?

Jared: Yeah. So with the first hire, I say lead carpenter because he was out in the field, you know, doing all the work all the time. and not necessarily managing it. I was doing that with our current hire. he, he is a great lead carpenter and he actually started out doing that. But recently as we’ve been getting busier, I’ve just been saying, look, you know, you can take off your bags and just work on making sure the subs are lined up and everything is running as it should be.

Jared: We have the materials here. And so he’s still kind of like in in that transition of maybe 25 to 50% bags on and then the rest being project management. but it’s really good to have somebody who has his van still full of tools and the knowledge of how to use them, versus just getting somebody who can run a schedule and, you know, make sure the materials here.

Jared: So if if something goes wrong and we lose one of our carpenters, then he can fill in that spot and I can come and, you know, filling that spot for him to.

Tim: Okay. Cool. So we’re going to wrap up here. This has been really cool. I don’t know if you saw me writing down some notes, but, you know, I’m taking some notes over here, but maybe the last thing here, like, do you have any kind of, tidbits of advice, golden nuggets that you could give to somebody listening in here that, is thinking about making this transition or maybe has made the transition, but it’s not going very well.

Tim: I mean, for many people, it it’s a real, real struggle. So what do you have some like tidbits of advice there.

Jared: Yeah. So for somebody who’s looking to make the transition, what worked out really well for me was just listening to a lot of audiobooks and reading books in my spare time and just being hungry, hungry to learn more and, for somebody who’s not having that good of a time in the transition, I’ve seen this happen with a couple of folks and it’s like, maybe, just try to be humble and accept that you don’t know everything and that you might have to reach out for help.

Jared: you know, talk to Remodelers advantage and and get into the university. That was huge for us moving forward and continuing to move forward. but mainly just seeking out that that knowledge and wisdom.

Tim: That’s so fantastic. I really appreciate you taking some time, Jared, to share some of these things. Yes. It is a little bit different information than what we had, you know, a month or so ago with Brad. But just fantastic insights. And, a lot of different things. I’m very, very, very happy. So thank you so much for being on board.

Jared: You betcha.

Steve: Thanks so much. Take care.

Jared: Yeah.

Steve: So, Tim, I think that, for so many reasons, this was extremely beneficial because it was different from from Brad and, you know, I think it’s kind of a mix of, what Jared and Brad, I had, you know, face, I think Brad was a very strong carpenter, right. And had a hard time releasing his grip because he was so good.

Steve: Yeah, I had a mix of certain things I was good at and couldn’t release and and yeah, I thought this was really fantastic in, in, what just kind of Jared’s journey through this process.

Tim: So the thing that stands out to me is that he was very proactive. Yeah. This was not this was not, this didn’t accidentally happen to him. And this is true. You know, if you, all the business owners, most of the business owners that we interact with, it doesn’t just happen, but they’re proactive and just the idea of reading books and listening to audio books on business and trying to pick up, all of that, the door to door, you know, Doorknocking for work, you know, like, how many people do that?

Tim: Not too many. But he’s out there and he found a great employee, doing that. And I’ll just say it again, I think people today need to be out driving around looking, you know, looking for those yard signs of, you know, Bob’s handyman. They’ll maybe Bob’s tired of, you know, doing handyman and wants to build houses or something like that.

Tim: So I think that was, pretty cool. And then I really did like this concept of, digging into recruiting. You said I dug into recruiting. There’s two huge concepts there. One, he got serious about it. That’s the dug in. And then the recruiting wasn’t waiting for people to come to him. He was going after them. And that’s a huge thing.

Tim: And again, for those of you who are listening that are not in that one man band, there’s so much stuff here for you to write. Yeah, we recruiting, hiring. he said it’s like fishing, right? You got to keep fishing. If you’re going to catch fish, you don’t just fish for, you know, an hour and then quit. Yeah, you keep fishing.

Tim: So all of those things, it’s just fantastic information for everybody. Everybody who listens to this podcast can get something out of what Jared was sharing today.

Steve: Yeah, also is such a testament to overall goals and budgets for the company because he’s able to have this goal of what he wants to create, and he back fills, with a lot of the activity and the, you know, digging in to, dig into what what’s what you just said.

Tim: recruiting.

Steve: Recruiting. it is it’s just something that everybody needs to do at all times. And he dug into the recruiting, but he also knew what he was looking for. Right. Which is just so important. So again.

Tim: And going and going along with that, he made some mistakes.

Steve: Yes.

Tim: But guess what? It didn’t it didn’t derail him from continuing to trust and continuing to, to to look for, for other people. So I just, just so many good things about what he’s done. I think the other thing, just really quickly before we wrap up the statement I wanted to take care of my people came up quite a bit there.

Tim: Yeah. And you’ll notice he, you know, he looked at it and I heard it subtly, and I hope I didn’t read anything in there, but he was basically saying, look, we need to take care of people and I’ll charge enough to make sure that happens. Yeah. As opposed to saying, you know what, we’re making millions of dollars. So I guess we can afford to pay for somebody’s health insurance.

Tim: Right? So it’s a different mindset. And I’ve just got to feel like people are going to appreciate that.

Jared: In the long.

Steve: Run. You brought a great point of that is an attractive place to work. Yeah. Yeah. So all right. Well once again we want to thank Jared there for joining us today. And we always want to thank you for listening to another episode of The Tim Faller Show.

Tim: And remember, at the Tim Faller Show, we’re working hard to eliminate it is what it is from your vocabulary.

Steve: I this has been another episode of The Tim Faller Show. Once I hire Tim and fast track your growth, visit remodelers. advantage.com/consulting to learn more. And if you’d like more information about roundtables, our world class peer advisory program, please send me an email at. Steve. Every model there’s advantage.com. And of course, don’t forget to subscribe to the show and comment on iTunes.

Steve: Thanks for listening. We’ll see you next week.