Mark: Today on PowerTips Unscripted. We talked to Kathi Fleck, president of Lone Star Design, built in Dallas Fort Worth, Texas. Did you know that networking with realtors can bring additional work? It’s not about the masses, but developing relationships with several Realtors who appreciate how you work, your quality, attention to detail, and exceptional client experience. Kathi is here to help us understand how the realtor works, and share a few simple tips that can pay off with easy referrals.

Mark: And we’ll hear all about it in just a second.

Victoria: Hi, I’m Victoria Downing and welcome to PowerTips Unscripted where we talk about tips, tactics and techniques to help you build a strong, profitable remodeling company. And I’m here with my co-host, Mark Harari.

Mark: You sure.

Victoria: Are. How are you on this rainy day?

Mark: I’m drying off.

Victoria: Yes. That’s good. That’s good. I can see a little steam coming off. so another great episode approaches.

Mark: Hey, referrals. Referrals, referrals and a good source that a lot of people I don’t think think about.

Victoria: You know, when it really it’s a, guerilla marketing tactic that I think that is neglected. So I’m pretty pumped about talking about today and giving people another way to generate really high quality leads.

Mark: Absolutely. Can’t wait to hear about it.

Victoria: All right. Well, let us get started. Kathi Fleck is our guest today, and she’s the co-owner of Lone Star Zine, billed as Mark said in the Dallas Fort Worth, Texas area, where she leads a team and their clients through the design build experience. Kathi has a long term relationship with Coldwell Banker Real Estate and other realtors who send business her way.

Victoria: In addition, Kathi is also going to be with us at the upcoming design, Building and Effective Design Process Master Class, so we’re really excited to talk to Kathi today. Hey buddy, how are you?

Kathi: I’m great. Thanks so much for having me. I’m excited to talk about realtors. Well.

Victoria: You know, it sounds like, like it could be a really challenging thing to do to to start to get referrals from realtors, but no.

Kathi: You know, in a way, it is. It’s not a short term fix. And realtors by trade are taught to go ahead and give out three business cards. And of course, us in the design build process, want to work with a client and not go through the bid process. So I think that’s one of the challenging things. But there are ways to work around it.

Victoria: So how long have you been working with realtors and getting leads from them?

Kathi: Oh well, we started the business in 2007 and at that time I joined networking groups, which is where I was really reaching out to to realtors. And so I met somebody in a networking group in 2007 who was a bank, a realtor, and we did some work for her, and then she referred us to their corporate office. And in the Dallas area, there were about 19, Coldwell Banker real estate firms.

Kathi: And so we were working for some of them, not the ones on the other side of Dallas, but we’ve been with them about since about 2007.

Victoria: So, you know, I hear a lot of people say, oh, I’m not going to go on real estate. A realtor leads because they all they want is for me to come in, give them all this free information, and then they, you know, then they don’t hire us or, you know, we don’t get the business from their client or the client doesn’t buy the house.

Victoria: So we don’t do the remodeling. What are you finding?

Kathi: That’s true. That’s true. And I am at the beginning, I used to chase a lot of those bad leads as well. and sometimes really, or sometimes I will get some leads from buyers who want to get that same information and just have a conversation with them on the phone and talk about the budget part. And, and our process is much lengthier than trying to give them a quick fix for that.

Kathi: And I don’t get that business either. I don’t even go out on those calls. So it’s it’s not one that I would want to chase either.

Victoria: Okay. So go ahead.

Kathi: I was just going to say, I think the other part is having realtors who who understand the work that we do and appreciate it. And that’s a good fit for their clients. So they’re going to, help direct the client towards us.

Victoria: So you you’ve been doing this for a long time, and now you are what’s called the preferred affiliate, right? For Coldwell Banker.

Kathi: We’re on there. Come to your program, which is on their website, and it’s not as, visible. And I think it used to be. So a lot of people don’t know about it. And I haven’t really done a whole lot with the, realtor leads lately as far as going to presentations or meeting with a lot. And then the market’s just a little different than it was ten years ago.

Kathi: As we are know. So, it’s it’s really working with a few realtors who, appreciate the type of work that we do. And then they send somebody who’s interested in a couple jobs. And, you know, what’s going on this year is, one client, one realtor sent a client to us and did not go and send out the different bids or the different business cards.

Kathi: And she was looking for this client, was looking to bring her mother home, who lived in a nursing home in my background, from Universal Design. So we had enlarged doorways and, changed from a shower, a tub shower to, a roll in shower and closing some rooms. And so that was a good fit for this homeowner who when I went out to talk to her about the design build process, signed up right away.

Kathi: And we did a good job for her. Of course. Thank the realtor and all. And so when I called the realtor, she said, well, I had to think about who does this kind of work. And I’ve known this realtor for over ten years. And so she said, I thought you would be a good fit for her. And that’s the kind of referral that we really are looking for.

Victoria: So if you were just getting started, like if you think back to 2007 when you got started at this, how did you get in front of realtors and what did you do then? I mean, what was the process for starting to get them to start that relationship?

Kathi: And that’s a good question that I was, I contacted different managers at the local real estate offices, and then I asked if there was a way I could meet with them or do presentations. They all have, monthly meetings or quarterly meetings where they might be a breakfast or lunch and learn where they want a free food for their realtors, and it gives you the opportunity to go go in.

Kathi: You don’t get very much time. It might only be 5 to 15 minutes, but to go in and get to know them, I dropped off business cards. I would send, congratulatory cards to the top performers and just kind of get my self out in front of them. and then they would hand these business cards or fliers or whatever we put together at their real estate office.

Kathi: And so if somebody was looking for, come in to do some work, then they would go to that if they didn’t have the sources. But all these realtors are wanting to build up their resources. And so most of them have a whole list of people who do different things. And so, you know, we don’t want to get into that low bid process.

Victoria: Right. So when you were doing presentations to them, no matter if you had five minutes or 15, what did you talk about? What was the goal there? Was it a topic or just pitch in your company or what was it?

Kathi: I would always want to pitch my company in between this as far as how we could handle help for them. I would give them some information. I’d have to go back and even think about which ones, because it would be a little different from the different times. we were just starting into the downturn at that point.

Kathi: And so, look, we do to help people sell houses during that market. I used to offer, free services to the realtors. So if they wanted kind of a quick fix, inspection report, I would they would send their inspection reports or inspection reports over to me, and we would just give them kind of a rough, I on not to go visit it, but just to do that and send it back.

Kathi: They don’t really ask for that anymore. sometimes I would give them some lower priced handyman costs in order to get in the door. Okay. but I don’t really do that now. It’s really more looking to the real leaders who want to design, build, houses. But I would say if someone’s just starting out, it has to go to the manager and ask them, if they could come and meet with the realtors so they can get them themselves in front of the realtors, bring their business cards, maybe a flier on their services, however they want to work, and then some of them will be have an interest.

Kathi: And they that might be a good start to, to start developing a relationship. It might be that you take them out to lunch. I also got to find the right realtors who fit your your market. so just just for an example, a Caldwell banker office in a high end neighborhood like South Lake. they still have the realtors that we want to work with, but some of those realtors may work with a lower end houses who aren’t looking for any help, right.

Kathi: Or looking for the cheapest fix. And so we’ve got to also find the right realtors who fit the type of work that we’re looking for. So if somebody wants a design build or they’re wanting to do an addition, then those would be the ones that some of my peers would want to take a look at.

Mark: Kathi, it sounds like some of the things you were saying before that you were you were doing an offering to the to the realtor. It was the goal was trying to make their their life easier. Is that a fair statement?

Kathi: Yeah, that’s it’s really a good, overview of it because Realtors, I am shocked at how much work they do to sell a house. They may be meeting the whole company over there to make sure that the pool is taken care of, or the maintenance people. If somebody is, is relocated and they’re out of town, they’re meeting everybody.

Kathi: They would be meeting me over to take measurements and figure things out. So, yes, to make their life easier, that that realtor wants to feel very comfortable that they’ve made the right choice in who they’re selecting.

Mark: Right.

Kathi: So when I talk to when I talk to some realtors and they say I have to give out majorly three cards, one of them, the realtor, might say, but this is the one that all my clients choose. So they’re then helping to direct that homeowner, right buyer seller to actually work with the prefers the preference.

Mark: So is there anything other than making their job easier or helping them take the stress off of the realtor themselves? That that you think they’re looking for in the right remodeling partner? What else, what else can can make that connection work?

Kathi: Well, I think the right partner is is a good part of it when you’re looking at communication. Follow up. Thank you. Appreciation. the level of professionalism, all those things that are our members offer kind of differs from somebody who’s just going to pour concrete or clean windows or clean gutters or something like that, which are also on the list.

Mark: So, I’m curious because you mentioned, like they’ll say, this is, this is someone that most of my clients choose as, as kind of a, direction is is there ever an issue? I don’t know if it’s maybe just in your area or nationally or anything, but, are they allowed to is there any kind of, like, percentage or sharing or kickbacks or any of that kind of stuff going on, or is that something everybody should be wary of?

Kathi: Yeah, yeah, that’s a that’s a good question. Where I hadn’t experience at the very beginning, probably about ten years ago or so, when I really did ask for some kickbacks on that. And when I checked around, and I found that that really was, illegal. And they are not supposed to be asking for any kickbacks. and most of the villagers have a whole stash of gift cards, so I would say, you know, if they’re going to send you business, a thank you card with, a gift card and $50 or $100 whatever would be a nice thank you, because they’re really looking for making sure that their clients are well taken care

Kathi: of because they’re looking for referrals to. Right. I would be real leery about giving, these percentages of the job back to somebody. Yeah. I think it also puts puts the homeowner in a bad spot in the real industry. Earthy, you know, the villagers trying to control the process. How are they going to handle costs and permits and all the rest of that?

Kathi: Should you hear me back?

Victoria: So earlier you talked about finding the right realtor that fits your market. How are you doing that without insulting? you know, if you go into an office and you’re doing a presentation, you’re like, oh, dude, I don’t want to talk to you. You got the low end houses. I want to talk to you, too. You know how how do you know who to target?

Kathi: I don’t think it’s easy. I’m surprised sometimes that some of the leads that come my way. don’t really know. there’s some that will send me referrals that are not a good fit. And I always think the real lender for it. And then I say, let me check with the homeowner and see if this is what they want.

Kathi: So one referral recently was for a couple who just moved here from Spain and the realtors who called me. It was fairly new, and so that really was really looking for something that homeowner was really looking for something different from the design build process. And so I met with them, talked to them. I really respect the realtors referral.

Kathi: so I’ll probably go out of my way to make sure that I handle it a little differently from just somebody calling in from online. but we spoke openly and said that this is how they were. What are you looking for? And they thank me. And so we’re looking for something different. So it doesn’t necessarily mean that they’re gave me a bad lead.

Kathi: It’s just that it wasn’t a good you want to live, right?

Victoria: Okay. I see what you’re trying to be super careful to take care of those leads that the realtor send you, even if they’re not in it.

Kathi: Okay. Right, right. So I paid more attention to those to the realtors and their lead.

Mark: How many? I’m curious. How many realtors would you say you have close relationships with currently?

Kathi: I would say it’s probably half a dozen, but it’s not like they give me leads all the time. The market’s just a little different right now. And, it’s very there’s one realtor who gives me a lease, and I have a job going on right now. I’ve never met this gentleman. He’s not with Coldwell Banker, and I don’t even know how he got my name.

Kathi: and so I’m asking if we could meet. Come on. And, you know, just keep doing the job, and I’ll send you a list. And so it’s nice. That’s all I have with him. Yeah. And it’s nice.

Victoria: What’s one of the largest projects that you have received from a realtor lead?

Kathi: probably say several hundred thousand dollars per project.

Victoria: Nice. So. And out of your out of your efforts to get leads from realtors, how much money do you think you invest in a year in order to generate that business?

Kathi: Well, earlier I’d say 2007 through ten, 11 or so, it was more because it was more the Black Panther leader right now, Atlanta just kind of this came up. I’m thinking I need to get back into it a little bit more because I’ve done as much as I could do a little push for me as well. So I would say very little.

Kathi: Very little did I put into it. I should do more.

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Victoria: All right. That’s very cool. So what do you think if somebody is going to get started this. How long do you think it it’ll take till results can be seen.

Kathi: it’s hard to say. I would probably attack it just a little differently and maybe take a look at whether the, realtors real estate offices in the area that I want to market and then say there’s maybe 2 or 3 different ones, approach them to see if there’s any need to get representation, because they’re always looking for something you probably could do down their calendar within the next six months.

Kathi: They might have it looked up. They might offer an opportunity next month. Go meet with them, and talk to the realtors and then see if there’s any there. Those who have an interest in anything further, maybe go by since we’re working in the holidays. maybe go by Christmas and drop off a tree of cookies with a business card.

Kathi: They like that. Okay, okay. and I think it just has to be a continuous thing. And to use that kind, the command of the guy. I mean, I don’t expect them even from the manager that sent me the business. this year, for the woman who was bringing her mother home, I never got any business from her before.

Kathi: I came here since 2007. So she’s asked me for. She’s given me Lee. But our price has always been too high. Or she’s not. She’s always dealt with lower, lower priced jobs. And I would never get anything from her. So it’s a little surprising that this one worked out. So I think part of it is just being out there, and maybe it’s a quarterly thing where somebody goes by once they develop a relationship and checks in.

Kathi: a tray of cookies is always great for one for everybody. It’s hard to say.

Victoria: Well, so let’s say that you are driving through one of your most desirable neighborhoods where you have done work and you want to do more work, and you see a real realtor’s sign somebody brand new. Would it be considered gauche to go directly to that realtor? What the manager of the office be offended? Is it always best to go to the manager to start these relationships?

Kathi: No. I think you can go straight to the realtor. I think that is fine to say, hey, I saw your car. You have lots of houses or houses? Yes. Are you saying have houses in this neighborhood? And I do lot of work in this neighborhood. And I’m just wondering if you have needs for the services that I provide.

Mark: That’s really that’s a great. Oh go ahead.

Kathi: I was going to say two and I haven’t done this, but I just thought about this recently where several of the the jobs that I’ve gotten, the homeowners have lived in their house for several years, and they’ve gone back to the realtor and said, who do you know who could help me with this? and I’m thinking of two jobs I have going on right now, and I’m just wondering if that would be a way, a tactic to go back to, to find some realtors where if somebody went to their past jobs and they, you know, they had a good relationship with them and they said, who’s your millionaire?

Kathi: You know, have you worked with them before or how long has it been? Would you mind giving me their name? Oh, that’s I’d like to just see if anybody else would need some help like you do. And that way that might be a good connection for that realtor because they’ve already they already know the job that was done.

Victoria: Yeah. Good idea.

Mark: That’s a really good idea. Kathi, I like that you said go straight to the realtor, because right now we’re going to go straight to the lightning round.

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Mark: Okay, let’s put 60s on the clock. Here we go. What’s your favorite business book and why?

Kathi: Oh, I love this old classic, acres of diamonds. And it’s written by, Russell Conwell. And he gave it as a speech in the late 1800s. so it’s giving the audience examples of success and genius. And at that time, people were chasing after diamonds. And so he talked to a man who wanted to find diamonds so badly that he sold his property and went off in search of them.

Kathi: And the new owner of his home discovered a rich diamond mine right there on his property. Oh, gee, it’s a reminder to me, as many of us chased after that shiny object, where where our success is really lying in the backyard.

Victoria: That’s great.

Mark: If you weren’t the owner of a remodeling company, what do you think you’d be doing?

Kathi: love fitness and health. So that’s one area I love design. And then I also really like coaching women in the business world because it’s come combination or one of those three things.

Mark: What are you not very good at?

Kathi: I cannot carry a tune. Okay. Nothing.

Mark: Your room, your desk or your car. Which do you clean first?

Kathi: my room, my haven, away from everything else.

Mark: All right, so obviously you don’t sing in public, but do you sing in the shower?

Kathi: You know.

Mark: What’s the last thing you watched on TV land?

Kathi: World series, around the World Series, but the playoffs around. So my husband had it down and I was sitting with him, and the other day he gave it away.

Victoria: And it’s an icon. I think our team, the nationals, are in those playoffs, aren’t they?

Mark: If you call on our team.

Victoria: So yeah, should be.

Kathi: So there you go. Both of our teams. Yes.

Victoria: There you go. Well this is great Kathi. Thank you so much for sharing this. You know I love having more, ideas for marketing for our listeners. But before you go, I want you to share with our listening audience your five words of wisdom and why they resonate with you.

Kathi: Well, I kind of put down a few items here. It’s give me do more today because that’s all we have on today. And so I kind of want to live life to the fullest.

Victoria: Oh, good for you. That’s awesome. Thank you for sharing that. We appreciate you being here and I look forward to seeing you here at the Design Masterclass. Coming right up.

Kathi: I do too, I do too. Thank you so much for having me. I’ve enjoyed it.

Victoria: Good. Thanks, Kathi.

Mark: Thanks, Kathi.

Victoria: I love the idea. Are we going now?

Kathi: Yes.

Mark: Yes, we’re going now.

Victoria: That was great. I really like the idea of sharing more marketing tactics. And so many of these are simple, but people tend to forget about them. They’re on the SEO and all that sort of thing. But these simple, basic, historically successful tactics shouldn’t be neglected either.

Mark: Relationships are a powerful thing, right? Architects, interior design, or any of these avenues are smart ways to go. And the realtor, if no one’s ever thought of it. I mean, people are buying a new house and they’re going to almost always want to update it or change the kitchen because it’s outdated or something. You know, my wife’s a realtor and she runs into it all the time.

Mark: A lot of times some of our members or the design build firms aren’t the right fit because the people selling the house are looking to just get some quick work done to to get it up to snuff. But but the buyers are often looking to and you know, when she was talking, it’s something I’m I should mention something to my wife about this because I had never thought about it.

Mark: But, you know, realtors often give a closing gift to their client afterwards, whatever it may be a basket of stuff, gift cards and all that kind of thing. And yeah, I don’t know. I’m as she was talking about some of the stuff she does, I might if I was connected with someone that’s selling these kinds of houses, I might offer to be included in that gift basket or that that closing gift.

Mark: Yeah. You know, I mean, even if it’s a few tchotchkes or like, knives, you know, a knife set branded or something, I don’t know, whatever. But it seems like a good way to to keep your name in front of people. And it helps the realtor, because now that’s a few bucks that they’re saving on the, on the gift.

Mark: And they get all the credit. All the credit. Yeah. Which is which is exactly what a good relationships are about, giving credit to someone else.

Victoria: That’s right. Yeah. Well, that’s great. I really enjoy we should.

Mark: We should actually mention, you because you told her you couldn’t wait to see her for her master class.

Victoria: Right?

Mark: You should want to tell everybody about it.

Victoria: Sure. So we’re really excited about this. It was over an idea that came to us from several of our roundtable members. And it’s for design managers, high level designers, owners who are managing in the design process in a remodeling company. And it’s all about building an effective design process, helping avoid the, the the roadblocks that occur. And in the, in the design process as you’re getting ready to build that project.

Victoria: So we’re going to have presentations by three of our members. Kathi is going to be talking to us about how to work with vendors. Jonas Kamarck is going to be talking about working with budget, how to how to develop a budget that meets their needs and wows them but doesn’t exceed. So they go forward with the project.

Victoria: Chris Landis, is going to be here talking about the Landis, construction companies, how their design process works. It’s going to be fantastic. It’s a master class here at, Remodelers Advantage World headquarters here for more. And, it’s coming up fast.

Mark: Yeah, coming up in December. So, you can find out all the information about all of our available master classes at Remodelers advantage.com/masterclass. So that was good. I can’t wait to see her in a few weeks as well. December for the master class. And, a good topic to be sure. I hope you all got some good tips out of it.

Mark: I expect everyone to put something into place next week. Get on. Okay. All right. Thanks for being here. I’m Mark Ferrari.

Victoria: And I’m Victoria Downing. See you next week. This has been another episode of PowerTips Unscripted. The Remodelers Guide to Business. Visit w w w dot Remodelers advantage.com to learn more about roundtables. Our world class peer advisory program. There you can also find information about our business consulting services, upcoming live events, and much more. And finally, don’t forget to subscribe to the show and comment on iTunes.

Victoria: Thanks for listening.