Steve: Welcome to the Tim Faller show, where production is paramount, and we discuss the tools, time and people associated with getting jobs done and making a profit.

Steve: In. On today’s episode of The Tim Faller Show, we will be talking about bonuses and incentives. Episode four. With the help of special guest Doug Panozzo of Hogan Design and Construction in Geneva, Illinois, alongside Tim Faller. I, I’m your co-host, Steve Wheeler. Here is The Tim Faller Show.

Tim: Hey, everyone out there, Tim Faller here, and welcome to this episode of The Tim Faller Show. Keep your ideas coming in. I received one, the other day from the fellow that wanted me to talk about and get some guests on about when to hire an estimator so you can look forward to a couple of episodes on that.

Tim: as we are moving into the new year, this being 2021. And so, anyways, I’m just wanted to make sure you understood that when you send me those emails, they don’t get filed away and thrown away. I actually do listen and pay attention. So ever since about 1992, when I started yakking about production management, talking about the lead carpenter system to start with, and then we gradually migrated into project management, in the remodeling industry, bonuses, incentives, motivating people has been a hot topic, and I’m not exactly sure why, but it seems to be popping up again.

Tim: now, it may be that because of, what we would call the human resource crisis that we’re in, maybe companies are saying, hey, we need to hold on to people a lot more. We need to make sure we’re taking care of people so they’ll take care of us. But for whatever reason, I just felt like this would be a great format, a great topic for us to have on the podcast.

Tim: Now, I have, as I’ve said, for the last three episodes, I’ve assembled a cast of characters. two of the characters you’ve heard from before our guest today, you’ve heard from before, and we had two new ones, and I hope you’ve enjoyed the last three. If you haven’t had a chance to listen to them, go back and listen to them.

Tim: They’re they’re really great. And they’ll give you a lot of ways to look at this situation. So, now each one of the guests has a new way of looking at it. Their version of how we approach it. And I think it’s kind of great to just hear different ways. Now, as I’ve said before, I’ve asked the guests not to talk dollars and cents.

Tim: we do have competitive, issues all across the country with this. And so, just giving percentages as needed and trying to outline, how we’re, how they’re doing their bonuses and incentives. So, Steve, let’s get started with episode four.

Steve: Okay, Tim, let’s get started. Doug Panozzo is a production manager for Hogan Design and Construction in Geneva, Illinois. He has been with the company since October 2017, when he came from outside the industry from a tech company and moved into the production manager role with Hogan almost two years ago. Welcome to the show, Doug.

Doug: Thank you very much, Steve and Tim. I’m glad to be here. It’s an honor.

Tim: All right. So, I, I mentioned in the intro that you’d been on the show before, so just give us, like, a reminder of the company that you work for. What’s it like? What volume are you doing? How do you do your production? Do you have lead carpenters? Do you do project managers? Give us a little rundown on that so everybody understands a little bit about the context.

Doug: Absolutely. So, Hogan design and construction, we have in-house design and we run a project manager system. We’ve got five project managers that run about 7 to 8 projects each. that’s including projects and planning, production and punch list. we have a handful of in-house carpenters and laborers, and we are doing, on average, between 8 and 10 million in revenue, this year, closer to the ten.

Tim: Wow. Okay. So, let’s get started on this. Bonuses and incentives. And I’ve asked everybody this question to kind of get started. So do you believe that the financial bonuses that you have in place are incentives for your team?

Doug: So, yeah, they keep it that way. I would say it’s not necessarily an incentive. It’s like a subcategory of an incentive. There is, I think, many different facets of ways, to incentivize and motivate your team. but this would be one of the smaller subcategories that help the financially motivated,

Tim: Do you. Okay. So basically they aren’t equals, but they practice the bonuses, participates in some way in motivating and and keeping people, moving along, I guess be the way to say it is. Is that kind of a good way to say it?

Doug: Yes, definitely.

Tim: Okay. So now before we get into the details of your system, what motivated this? Now, it may have actually been in place before you became production manager, but what was the driving force behind the system that you have now and maybe give us like where did it start? And how did it move to where it is now.

Doug: Yeah. So the so the bonus structure actually since I started with the company has changed four times and it keeps getting better and better for for the team, which is great. and it becomes more and more measurable and motivating is really the goal. So it started as this like what, positive positive motivator for the PMS to hit their metrics.

Doug: And we know what the three most popular metrics are. Happy customer under budget and on time. So so rather than saying, hey, your job responsibility are these three things and that’s it. So do those things or you’re not doing your job right. We wanted to keep the guys focused on those every single day in the midst of everything else going on.

Doug: So, so like I said, it’s developed and changed four different times throughout the, throughout the time I’ve been here. And now it’s become something that’s very easily definable and, and measurable so that the guys know where they’re going to land as they’re running their projects.

Tim: So can you can you kind of give us those steps? What were the what were the steps in the evolution or if there was just two steps or whatever?

Doug: Yeah. So at first it was mostly like customer satisfaction was the starting one and, and budget. And then it developed into including a scheduling bonus. because in there like, oh, well, if I could say under budget and keep the customer happy, the schedule will go a little bit longer with us. And we wanted to narrow that in.

Doug: And then we started on like lead, bringing in leads from previous customers and new customers and then, and then just more fun competitive ones like that, which I’ll go into detail, but like an end of year. And, if you get a certain amount of all five surveys in a row. So it’s kind of like little ways to make it more competitive, like mini games within the bonus structure.

Tim: Now, would it be, would it be fair to say, Doug, that you kind of waited to master the, the each step before you added, components to it? Because I, it would feel confusing to me anyway. It’s like, okay, hit your budget and your schedule. Oh, and by the way, you know, I’m not doing that yet.

Tim: But if I do five more things, I can maybe get a little bit more. It was it was it added in as you went along.

Doug: Yeah. So yeah, it was definitely we needed to have a good tight grasp on whatever we’ve rolled out from the start. Right. And then once the guys were noticing the impact financially and it was changing the way that they they focused on it and every aspect of the project, then we’d say, oh, well, you know what? Why don’t we dial it in on the schedule?

Doug: So let’s do this scheduling bonus and then, oh, you know what? I see that you guys are talking a little bit about who’s got the most perfect surveys in a row. So let’s make that a competition and let’s put a driver behind that too. So yeah we would be we’d get something tied down. We feel really secure about it and we move on to the next thing that keeps driving.

Doug: And I would imagine probably in, you know, within the next nine months, I’m sure there be something new and fun for the team.

Tim: Yeah. We’ll have to follow up on that. Yeah. So, yeah, I know a lot of companies have trouble getting the financial bonus to really take hold with the people that do control what’s going on on the job site. Project managers, lead carpenters. And so did you guys have trouble kind of, getting it to take hold with the project managers or did they generally go like, yeah, this is great.

Tim: We’re we’re going to see if we can hit these, these metrics.

Doug: I think at first it started with this mindset like, oh, that sounds fun because it wasn’t like, oh, we’re going to apply this, bonus structure and reduce your salary. It was this is on top of what you’re doing now. So so at first everyone’s like, that sounds great. We’ll see if we hit it. And but then it took us actually having to use some examples so they could visualize it.

Doug: So we took a project very round numbers and said hey, if you were to do this with the budget, if you were to do this with the survey, and this was what the percentages on that project, this is where it would land. So then they visualize it, which is great, but then we’d start applying it to projects. And as soon as they started seeing it actually show up on paychecks, then it was like real quick that it turned around and they’re like, oh yeah, okay, now I need to make.

Tim: Yeah, I think that tends to be the way that I think the opposite of it is when everybody talks about it, and then it doesn’t show up on paychecks and everybody gets discouraged, it can be really demoralizing. Was there any thing that you guys did special that made sure the team would be winners? Or was it that the jobs were already pretty well funded?

Tim: Therefore, it wasn’t a big stretch to to hit some of these numbers.

Doug: Well, some of them. Well, I guess to put it to answer the question, there is there is a minimal bonus structure that’s tied to like if you land 100% on a budget. So, so at least if the guys did their job the right way and they landed right there and it was estimated the right way, and we and we have that kind of tied down, there was something tied to it.

Doug: So it wasn’t some sort of outlandish pipe dream. The guys that realistically they saw where they laid out previous jobs because we already looking at the autopsies after the projects and then now we were able to dial it into based off of actual metrics and say, okay, well, if I were to land this percentage, then I get this, this,

Tim: Okay, great. So let’s just talk about what you’ve got going on. And so you you’ve mentioned, I don’t know, 5 or 6 different things already, but give us like how does it work, what is the basic framework, what are the components. And maybe what are the percentages that are associated with those component.

Doug: Okay. So there’s quite a lot of information when it comes in to that I guess starting starting there. as far as how we manage what we have coming, like the actual bonus structure itself. So we do a planning system where we do a past back between the project manager and myself when they’re planning a project. So I’m able to take a look through the project with them, separately from our job site visits and whatnot.

Doug: So through that, that actually helps me enter it into my metric so I could measure it as we go through the project and the team is then visually doing it too. So this way there is, you know, a good balance of me being able to watch over what’s going on and make sure that things are being reported accurately.

Doug: And then I keep metrics going throughout the projects and afterwards. So we’re able to do it. and the actual bonus structure. So first we have the the budget bonus. So if a project lands in at at their cost of goods. So we’re looking specifically at their cost of goods. They’ve got their budget for their cost of goods.

Doug: If they’re between 100% and 97% of utilizing that budget, then they will get 1% of the gross profit. If they’re between 96.99 and 94%, they get 2% of the DP, 93.99 to 93%, and under 90% is 4%. So that budget bonus is tied to are they shopping or are they looking for different discounts? Are they, you know, using coupon codes on and from different vendors?

Doug: Are they, you know, talking to different trade partners and having different people bid that same project? okay. So that’s your budget bonus and the customer satisfaction. So we use guild quality. we’ll send out a midway survey and a shortly after completion survey. And, we base the actual bonus structure off the shortly after completion survey.

Doug: Survey. The midway is kind of like a feeler. And then how do we turn it around? If there’s anything it’s not. so if, if one of the project managers gets all fives on their guild quality survey, they would get 3% of the GPS. If they have less than three fours, they’ll get 2% if they have any, if they have threes and above.

Doug: So like three fourths and fives they’ll get 1%. And if they have any twos that’s that’s no no survey bonus. And if they have any ones or zeros it actually disqualifies them from a survey bonus, a budget bonus and a scheduling bonus. They get disqualified from all of them because the customer is not happy. So it doesn’t really matter where you land on everything else.

Tim: Yeah, it just strikes me that you’d have to be pretty bad to fail a bonus on the Guild quality survey, because generally what I’ve seen from the companies that we host on this show anyway is it’s fours and fives pretty much across the board and fours, because people don’t want to give you a five.

Doug: Yeah, yeah.

Tim: Yeah. Okay. All right. Cool. So that that’s so we’ve got budget. We’ve got customer satisfaction.

Doug: We actually would.

Tim: Be next.

Doug: Conversations about guild quality and our survey. So the project managers are having more thorough conversations. And they have to do reminders throughout the project every two weeks to be talking to them and talking about online reviews and things of that sort.

Tim: Right. Okay.

Doug: Which online reviews is is one that we, that we, we are constantly pushing for online reviews too. So the guys have different competitions asking customers to to post stuff online and post pictures of their projects. but then so then we have the scheduling bonus. So scheduling bonus is a little bit harder to, to visualize. But so if if a project manager lands 100% on schedule, they, they plan out the job and it is, the day of final inspection or final clean.

Doug: And that’s when they completed their punch list. So not just substantially complete, but they’re they’re done with everything. then they get a 1% cross, GP bonus now every day prior to that. So if they were able to tighten up the schedule and land a few days early, they get an extra 10th of a percent added on to that.

Doug: And every day after that, they lose a 10th of that 1%. Okay. They’ll start at 1% of being directly on time two weeks later. slippage. Without any change orders, they’ll have, they’ll they’ll end up losing that 1%. Now, change orders are part of this too. So if it’s approved, change orders and that and within that change order we specify okay.

Doug: You added this scope of painting and added four days to your schedule. Now that adds on to what their original predicted year. So that does affect it. And all of those do have to be approved by myself too. So they’re not having like 100 days of change orders because customers are not reading it through. So, so I’m overseeing it, but that, that will, that will end up adding to it.

Doug: And then that way they have everything fair change orders, all inclusive.

Tim: Okay. All right. And I guess, I guess the point you’re just making is that by engaging with the project manager at the beginning of the job, you’re making sure they’re not adding like 100 days slots because, you know, and again, if he I’ve always said, if you have a problem like that with your project managers, you probably need different project managers.

Tim: But but the idea I’m again, business owners are probably gonna well, they’re just going to add three weeks so they’ll make their bonus every time. And I don’t think that’s true. But I just want to emphasize to everybody out there in podcast land that Doug is, is watching these things, but also then trusting his team to be honest about what it’s going to take.

Doug: Yes. And there is. So there is definitely a high level of trust with all aspects of what the guys do. So if they if we couldn’t trust them, they wouldn’t be a good fit. Nonetheless, however, everything has checks and balances, so when the guys originally plan their project, I am the one who fully approves before they release that schedule to the customer into the trade partners and go live with it.

Doug: So I’ve now said this is a realistic schedule. You don’t have all this buffer in it, and at the same time, at the same time with the same thing with the change orders, I’m the one who says, yes, that does sound like three days or no. That’s not necessarily ten days of added, schedule. So all of this, all of it’s approved.

Doug: And I do have a spreadsheet that I’m tracking it. So I don’t have to remember what happened. We it seven months ago.

Tim: Yep. Okay. Good budget guild quality schedule.

Doug: What else? so we have a couple of, more random ones. So, like, the guys will have if, if they bring in a new customer, the and it is not a previous customer, they will if we close that sale and we do actually do the project, they will get 1% of the total sale. So similar to a commission on on a new sale.

Doug: If a customer if if a project manager bring back a previous customer, they always want to work with their previous customer, so they’re automatically going to want that to be their project. And if they get all fives on their survey after they brought them in, they get an extra 1% on that. So rather than 3%, they’ll get 4%.

Doug: So we’re again tracking that to see what their, ahead of time. Oh you brought this previously down okay.

Tim: All right.

Steve: It’s done. Is this under one complete, umbrella? As a bonus, I’m hearing a lot of different levers, and I’m wondering how you’re tracking all this.

Doug: Yeah. So, so, yeah, I got I’m utilizing that metric spreadsheet to know where we’re at with these projects, so I’ll. I’ll tie in change orders and GP and total sale and everything in there, scheduling change order days and, and all this. and then we do an autopsy at the end, and we’ll dive through every aspect of the project the good, the bad and things that don’t necessarily tie to bonuses.

Doug: But then it dials into the bonus and then the guys have tracking so that they know what they’ve done throughout the year and how how successful they were with the context.

Steve: So they bring in the new client, it gets tracked on the metric spreadsheet. Or is this a separate tree? Where does that track?

Doug: it’s actually both. So we use we utilize builder trends for project management. And that’s what we use for lead intake as well. So if a lead comes in now it’s easy. When a project manager says, hey, I’d like to set a schedule, an estimate over here, for this customer that we have. but another time is if the customer calls and say, I’ve been talking to this project manager about this and I want to roll through with this.

Doug: So we’re constantly looking at lead, intake and where that, what resource they came in from. So if they mention a project manager goes right into there, we also do the same thing for customers. If customer says, oh, my neighbor did a project with you and they mentioned it, we do have like a, a thank you for customers sending us to us as well.

Tim: So the project manager in doesn’t have to sell the job. They just have to get the lead in the door and then somebody else is going to sell it.

Doug: Yeah. And they’re I mean, they’re always trying to sell no matter what they’re doing. They’re doing partner dust letters to the neighbors next door and saying, hey, you know, sorry if there’s any debris or loud noise or the way the guys are parking bothers you, please call me directly. Also, if you need anything done in your house, here’s my business card.

Doug: And I see like they’re they’re constantly looking for it. They’re at Starbucks getting a coffee and someone mentioned something they’re going to do. They’re going to give out their business card and have them call them direct and then set that up. they do. And times the guys have been interested in going on sales calls because they’re they are very, motivated and see the benefit of all this.

Doug: And we do have, like a commission structure similar to like a salesperson. And we have that going on. but if just even if the, a salesperson goes on an estimate like it’s we’ve, we’ve vetted that that in call and we go on that estimate, they’re just they’re getting a gift card, a $20 gift card, nonetheless, just for bringing something in.

Doug: So that is it, like right off the bat, they’re going to get something small. And then when we when if we actually close that sale, then they’re going to get a large, a good commission on okay.

Tim: What else.

Doug: So all right, so one of the newest ones that we’ve, we just started within the last six months is, the guys are kind of competing over how many? All five surveys they could get in a row. They want, like, perfect, perfect surveys. So, so right now, the highest streak we have, is eight. We had a guy who got a four, two months ago, and he was at nine surveys, and he was, like, fuming.

Doug: He was like, I can’t believe I got a four. I was going for ten. And so so they’re very like competitive and exciting. So we actually put together all, ten, all five, surveys in a row, like gift to them. And so we put like ten really nice gifts together and they can pick and choose out of it.

Doug: And it’s like either a weekend away at a hotel with a family or a very expensive, dinner in the city or something night or something real nice, like there’s a whole over, tool set. There’s, like, a whole bunch of things, but they’re very, like, very high end. Because for us, that customer satisfaction is our number one most important metric that we measure, right?

Doug: So on the bottom line that if they do really bad on surveys, they don’t get the other bonuses on the top end of that to get ten in a row. Then they have bragging rights. But also there’s something really good that they could bring home, with them.

Tim: So now again, my my world, my experience business owners are out there thinking about this now, do you have any assurance that they’re not telling their clients? Look, if you give me all fives, I get to go away with my wife for the weekend.

Doug: no, not necessarily. I. I don’t think there’s a level of customer that is unhappy that would take that in and be like, oh, yeah, I’m unhappy with this. My main contact and would go and give them all fives. So I don’t, but I don’t. I also have plenty of those conversations too with the customer. So I’m doing biweekly jobsite visits.

Doug: And at the end of the project, I do a final walk through with the customer as well, and I’ll bring up the survey and I’ll say, hey, there’s going to be the survey coming out. His metrics are based off of that survey, so let us know how he did because it’s specific to how he manages the project. Right.

Doug: And and and so I’m sure the guys say, hey, I would love great reviews on the surveys. It’s going to do it for me. I’m sure they see that. But that’s also having that relationship with the customer. Once you build that relationship, they want to come back to that same project manager and they want to come back to us specifically.

Tim: Really, really cool stuff. Yeah. All right. Any anything else? I mean, as if that’s not enough.

Doug: well, we do have we do have an end of year. It’s based off of, total budgets. And that’s something that we rolled out last year, and we didn’t really we were like kind of throwing out ideas and letting PMS develop it. And then this year we’ve decided, okay, beginning of 2021, we are going to actually have a very specific tiered budget structure based off of all of your projects and where they land as a whole on their budgets.

Tim: Now, you’ve mentioned a lot about the project managers. Is there anything in your bonus world that hits those handful of carpenters that you mentioned when you said you had them on your team? What what? Is there anything that hits them?

Doug: Yes. So we, so we wanted something that was more measurable because a lot of things that were out of their control, they were actually getting bonus. And but we are going to be doing, a profit sharing, starting in 2021 as well. So there will be a profit sharing program for office team and for field team.

Doug: but the the guys actually similar to guild quality. If, if any of our field guys are mentioned in, a survey, they get $100 bonus right away. So, so that’s a given if I get like gleaning reviews when I do a job site visit automatic $100 bonus to them because that that’s something that they excel at is always in front of the customers that they’re they’re helping.

Doug: They’re like, oh, you need help moving that couch or oh, I’m going to bring these the garbage cans up, up the driveway for you right here. I grabbed this package upfront. So they’re very courteous. And that’s kind of the white glove service that we give to our customers. And they get mentioned all the time. So then on the very next check, they get $100 bonus.

Doug: And it’s that motivator that keeps them going. and they also the project managers, from time to time will give out bonuses almost similar. We will track it like it’s a cost of good, as a labor cost really out of a project. But they’ll say these guys hustled. They got done in five hours. What? I had them scheduled for eight.

Doug: And so I. Can we please give them a bonus? I’m like, yeah, absolutely.

Tim: So now let me just let me just key in on this because this is something that I’ve tried hard to push to people and I don’t think I’ve gotten through. So what it is basically is that your project managers have discretion with the budget, within the budget to give out a bonus to the people that help them succeed.

Doug: Absolutely.

Tim: And that that is cool. yeah. I mean, a great thing.

Doug: Their budget, like their budget is what their, their potentially bonus. what they’re there when they start a project. They’re expecting all of these bonuses. They’re all realistic. They’re expecting somewhere on that level to hit some, some of these bonuses. So that budget’s very important to them. But when the guys are doing really good in the customers happy, they’re going back and thinking about good quality.

Doug: So then they’re thinking, I’m going to give these guys a bonus because they’re on my next five jobs and I want them happy, working hard, making these customers happy. The other part is the, if they’re hustling and they’re working really hard and putting out the same product, let me give them a bonus because I’m now under budget on labor anyways.

Doug: So they have that that discretion as well. But they also will do like customer like get the customer something and put it on the island. That their new kitchen, a big basket, something like that. But they do it as is it as a cost of good at their budget. Right. Because they know happy customer under budget. I’m good.

Doug: They have a lot of autonomy with that and they appreciate it.

Tim: Now let’s explore, one of our other guests about this. I can’t remember the exact verbiage, but they said something like, what starts out as a bonus becomes expected, you know, down the road, and you just use the term you know, you specifically said they expect to get a bonus on every job they expect to hit, every one of these bonuses.

Tim: How do you handle the fact that it doesn’t happen? Is it just kind of, hey, you’re in control of this and it didn’t happen? Or is there anything that you’re doing as a company that softens that blow a little bit?

Doug: I am glad that they expect it. I’m glad because they are that means that they’re going in with the right mindset. They’re expecting to hit all of their metrics. So.

Tim: So now there’s a difference between expecting to hit the metrics and expecting a bonus. Regardless.

Doug: Oh, right. Exactly. Regardless, because that’s exactly what they know. Hey, I went over budget. I’m not going to that.

Tim: That’s the key. That’s the key to the question. Right.

Doug: Because it is all metrics based. And they have free reign with what they’ve been given. They know it when at the end of the day, if it lands on that, it is their choice. There is there their hard work that got them the bonus. It wasn’t that we gave it to them. They blamed employees. So we’re never just giving out handouts.

Doug: And the second part, if they don’t get it, it wasn’t anybody else’s fault. And that’s part of that mentality. And the high level accountability that is crucial in having the right people for the right positions.

Tim: Yeah. So I’ve got two more questions. And then, I don’t know if it’s good or bad, but we’re going to have to wrap this thing up. So, so the first one is what do you think is the single biggest benefit to having the bonus program that you have? How would you describe that? In other words, what does it impact the most?

Tim: Let’s go ahead and tackle that. And then I’ll got one more.

Doug: So I would say first and foremost is accountability. The guys like own it. They’re they’re no longer saying it is what it is they’re saying. They’re saying I’ve got like it is in my hands. The ball’s in my court. I am the one who is able to take control and do the best with this. So they’re not looking at, what what was their excuses?

Doug: There’s no more excuses. It’s the, it is it is up to me to make this successful or failure.

Tim: Okay, so if you’re gonna advise somebody listening in and could be a business owner, it could be a production manager, it could be a project manager saying, wow, I’d love to get some bonuses. how would you recommend? Let’s start with a business owner or a production manager. They have a little more control of this. What would you recommend to them to kind of get going on it?

Tim: How how would you recommend that they either get go in or think about that bonus setup?

Doug: Well, first I guess the first thing would be to just do it. Just, stop that overthinking it, because part of this is okay. Yes, we’re looking at GP that we are giving away, but all of this is going to benefit the company and it is keeping the right people in the right places and they’re here with us.

Doug: So we have great. We don’t have high turnover of our in our project managers. They love being here, but that it pays for itself if they’re under budget. They’re creating that gross profit to pay this bonus structure. If we have happy customers, we have that repeat business that is going to pay for itself. So in itself, don’t think about where the dollars coming from, the dollars are.

Doug: They are already and they’re going to keep reoccurring if they’re if you as long as you imply it. For someone who doesn’t have a bonus structure right away, I would automatically just start with guilt, quality, and budget. Those are two very easy ones. You look at cost of goods. You know you’re whether you’re over or under on a budget, create that bonus structure real quickly and it’s easy.

Doug: Roll it out to the team. Be very clear about what it is so that the guys know and don’t start out on projects that are halfway through already. You got to do it because otherwise it’s hard to measure. and then guilt quality is very easy. When you, you see the reports, you just say, this is what it is.

Tim: All right. Well, Doug, I think before the show, we are talking a little bit. And I told you that we had had some pretty amazing podcasts already on this topic. Well, you have just, bumped the level up to a place where, given this whole series, I’m just, ecstatic, I guess is the word to say about the content.

Tim: And I really appreciate you taking a little bit of time and being on with us, and I can’t wait to hear, comments back from folks about this whole series. So thank you so much for being with us.

Doug: Thank you, guys. Thank you very much. It’s an honor, Tim.

Steve: I am, pretty amazed at, how this is rounded out with all of our bonuses and incentives podcast, this being episode four. you know, I was worried at some point that there may be some overlap or some repeat topics, but this is proven not to be the case. I think, you know, I’m just blown away at the level of detail and the, you know, a simple structure put in place and, you know, a really well thought out.

Steve: And I’m just always amazed at how creative these companies are. And yeah.

Tim: It’s it’s absolutely amazing. And I think just to remind everybody out there, this has been in progress for years. what they’re doing at Hogan didn’t, you know, start up, you know, in June of 2021. And so you talk about the intricacies of tracking it. You know, they’ve been tracking stuff for for years. And so they have that, ability I, I just want to comment on a couple of the similarities that came up in all four, discussions.

Tim: One was that money is not the only incentive within a company, and that our all four of our guests said, you know, it’s not money’s part of it, but it’s not the only thing that they’re doing. And and everybody and Doug spoke about it a little bit, talking in terms of culture like what’s the culture of the company?

Tim: And therefore the money is sort of icing on the cake. And then the other thing that every single one of them said and is it pays for itself. And I think that’s the thing that business owners and managers need to understand that well-run, again, jobs have to be estimated properly and so forth like that. But if if that’s the case, then the bonus structure, pays for itself.

Tim: And so it’s not, you know, coming out of somebody else’s pocket, it’s coming out of the, the profitability of a job or the company, as a whole. So those are the two things that that I found to be very, very similar, in there. And, and I think are things for everybody to consider.

Steve: One thing I think we’ve touched on with a number of episodes, whether it’s, you know, setting up games or incentives, bonuses, they’re competition is innate in all of us. And I think that he mentioned that they get very competitive and they want to be better. you know, with themselves, with the team. It’s just it’s great to put that in when it can advance the entire team as a whole.

Tim: Yeah. And I, I just kind of I mean, everybody is thinking budget. Everybody’s thinking schedule, everybody’s thinking client satisfaction. But, getting the online reviews, bringing in new clients. And I commented on that as part of the you know, this is it’s not unheard of, but very few companies really emphasize how important the project manager slash lead carpenter is to getting new business in.

Tim: And then, then they started this thing with the perfect surveys. And I just love the idea that they up the game. It isn’t a 100 bucks. It’s something that’s going to be worthwhile, not just to the project manager, but you noticed all those gifts a weekend away dinner in the city. They’re going to touch the lives of that family.

Steve: Yeah.

Tim: With the this bonus. And I think that’s something that hasn’t come up with the other companies that we talked to. But I think is a key. Like how do you get the spouse and in most cases the wife but or the partner. But how do you get them to love the company? You know, wow. They they sent us away for a weekend without the kids.

Steve: Yeah. Yeah. You know.

Tim: That’s going to bring.

Steve: Buy all around. Yeah.

Tim: In the family. So, just absolutely amazing stuff.

Steve: Yeah. Awesome. We want to thank Doug Panozzo for joining us again today. And we always want to thank you for listening to another episode of the Tim Faller Show.

Tim: And remember, Doug alluded to it in the show. We’re working hard to eliminate. It is what it is from your vocabulary.

Steve: this has been another episode of The Tim Faller Show. Want to hire Tim and fast track your growth? Visit remodelers advantage.com/consulting to learn more. And if you’d like more information about roundtables, our World-Class Peer Advisory Program, please send me an email at Steve at remodelers advantage.com. And of course, don’t forget to subscribe to the show and comment on iTunes.

Steve: Thanks for listening. We’ll see you next week. I.