Mark:Today on PowerTips Unscripted. We talked to Doug Howard, senior consultant of Remodelers Advantage. Every business needs a steady flow of qualified leads to succeed, and many companies say that most of their best leads come from referrals. And yet, most of those companies don’t have a formal way of generating referrals. Doug is here to share one method for creating such a system, and we’ll hear all about it in just a minute.
 
Victoria:Hi, I’m Victoria Downing, and welcome to PowerTips Unscripted, where we talk about tips, tactics and techniques to help you build a strong, profitable remodeling company. And I’m here with my co-host, Mark Harari.
 
Mark:Good morning.
 
Victoria:Hi there. How are you?
 
Mark:I’m excellent.
 
Victoria:So you must be excited about today’s topic because it’s right up your alley.
 
Mark:I love marketing. Yep. So is it great? Yeah. It’s going to be great.
 
Victoria:I know I talked to Doug about this a couple of weeks ago, and he had some really good ideas on how to get this referral program moving. So where are we ready to.
 
Mark:It’s a it’s such a tricky thing, right? I mean, it’s just so many questions about what’s the right program and what to do. And everybody’s got an opinion.
 
Victoria:But we all agree that referrals are fabulous like gold plated leads.
 
Mark:Oh it’s absolutely it’s a wonderful thing. So you should not be overlooking it by any stretch.
 
Victoria:All right. So let’s dive in. Okay. Today we have with us Doug Howard, senior consultant for Remodelers advantage. Doug the with us for a number of years working with hundreds of remodeling companies, both through facilitating our roundtable peer groups as well as one on one consulting. So today, he’s here to talk to us about building a lead referral engine, and we’re excited to have him.
 
Victoria:Welcome, Doug.
 
Doug:Well, thanks for having me. I’m glad to be here.
 
Victoria:All right, buddy. What’s the referral engine?
 
Doug:Well, it’s the part of the car that a lot of missing right now. Really. And so, you know, probably the biggest thing we were hearing, you know, over the last six months is, you know, leads are slower or down or we’re concerned about it or whatever. And then when you dig a little deeper and say, okay, well, where do your leads come from?
 
Doug:You know, some come from lots of different sources, you know, and but but most people will tell me what my best projects, my best leads come from referrals. And it’s like, well, that’s fantastic. So what do we do to drive referrals? And sometimes I’ll get people that will kind of talk about an annual newsletter and some things like that, some follow up that they do.
 
Doug:Other times I get some blank stares like, what do you mean? Like a referral is something that just comes to you. And when it comes to you, you’re thankful for. Well, okay. That’s part of it too. But, probably about 4 or 5 months ago, as we were starting to really dig into this, I came across a book called The Referral Engine.
 
Doug:Author by the name of John Jantz. He’s written some other marketing stuff. And, you know, as I started to dig into it and look at it, you know, and his methodology, that would make some sense, others that are maybe a little bit more specific to industries that might not make as much sense in the remodeling world. But the whole idea is you need to have a process.
 
Doug:You need to have a system. Where are these coming, from? And so, in fact, recently we just did a, class last week on, lead generation. And one of the six topics was creating the referral engine. And it got a lot of really interesting conversation about things that can be done. So the first thing is to try to figure out where referrals are even going to come from.
 
Doug:Like what are referral sources? And you know, for most people we can quickly identify, well, former customers, particularly the happy ones.
 
Victoria:Right? Yes.
 
Doug:But and then from that there’s usually some industry partners, you know, so for some folks, maybe it’s an interior designer or it’s an architect or, you know, whatever it happens to be. And then I like to remind people that it can also be anybody else that’s in front of the same target market that you want.
 
Victoria:
 
Doug:And I think that’s the place for a lot of people, you know, miss the opportunity to realize that it’s not about so much being where your competitors are. It’s about being with your customers.
 
Victoria:All right.
 
Doug:Who else is talking to those same people. And so for years, you know, before I met you guys I had an accounting practice when I was really in the boring stages of my life for about 15 years, but I lived and died by a list of about 30 bankers and about a dozen financial planners. And that list continually rotated.
 
Doug:Right. And that’s where we got most of our business, because they knew when people were starting a business, struggling in business, if they had already loaned the money or helping them get a loan. But what always drove me crazy was I would talk to somebody that I know I had gotten referrals from before. They knew I did a good job.
 
Doug:I might not have heard from them for 3 or 4 months, but if I took them to lunch and we kind of caught up on things and talked about some of the stuff we were doing the next week, they’d give me a call with two names of people that were on the top of their mind. And, you know, and I was one of like.
 
Doug:Like what? I have gotten that call if we didn’t have a sandwich last week or even sometimes when you’re talking to somebody and they know what you do, they, you know, don’t know that I think of it. My son’s just bought a house and he’s remodeling it. Maybe you’d want to talk to him. And it’s like you think, yeah, you would.
 
Doug:And so there’s that rekindling of things. But what I have found is that in asking folks, do you actually track your referral sources, like put them in the CRM, know who they are. Keep a short list, have a plan for how frequently you’re going to reach out to them. How do you make it easy for them to refer you by giving them the right information?
 
Doug:I find that the vast majority of people I talk to, you know, they have some referral sources, but they do not actually track them or we get that from them.
 
Victoria:Right. Do you do the most the people you talk to? Do they do things like send thank you’s and things like that when they do get a referral, even if they didn’t generate it, so to speak?
 
Doug:That’s a great question. So some do, right? Some have a criteria. Like I’ll send a thank you if you know I get something out of it. Or I’ll give them some sort of a gift or something if there’s a, a project that comes out of it. But what I often find is for a lot of folks, they don’t even close the loop and go back to the person that gave them the referral to tell them how the referral came out.
 
Doug:Right. And for some people to give referrals, that’s very uncomfortable. You know, if someone sends me a referral and says, listen, I think Doug could help you with your business. And I talked to that person, and maybe I can. And we start working together. Or maybe I determine we can’t and we don’t. Or they choose not to.
 
Doug:And that person runs into that person they referred. You know.
 
Victoria:Right.
 
Doug:Later. And they’re like, hey, did you ever connect with Doug? Well, either the response oh yeah, he’s I’ve been working with him. He’s been making money from me for the last two months and they haven’t heard anything or no, he said I wasn’t really a good fit for him and sent me down the road. Neither one of those make that person that gave you the referral feel warm and fuzzy.
 
Doug:You want to give you another referral.
 
Victoria:Or a third option is they go, whoo! Yeah, I don’t like that one either. Right.
 
Doug:And so when you call, when you circle back and say, you know, first of all, we really appreciate it. You know, we do something for everybody that gives us a referral. I certainly make a bigger deal out of things that turn into deals. But I also like to call people and say, you know, hey, Peter, I appreciate that referral, but it’s not exactly the kind of stuff that we can help with.
 
Doug:We need people that are a little bit more involved in X or that, but that’s also an opportunity for me to educate that referral source.
 
Victoria:A little bit.
 
Doug:But that next best referral would be. Well I also and I think most people would generally try to do this. It’s also really nice if you’re not the right solution for that person to steer them in the right direction.
 
Victoria:Yes. Yes.
 
Doug:And help them find that. So I just think that that’s one of those things that but I will tell you, a lot of people tell me they have nothing in place and nothing to to thank for referrals.
 
Mark:All right. So I have a question. Yeah. Because with anything, regardless of what you’re talking about in a business, we always say if if someone doesn’t own it or someone’s not in charge of it, then it doesn’t get done right. So both who who should be owning this and who is that? The person that’s responsible for getting referrals.
 
Doug:Yeah, I think it’s got to go back to the, marketing or sales team. I think the person that’s responsible for generating those leads, should be following that all the way through. Because first of all, they’ve established that rapport very early on. And even at the end of a project, I like to see them loop back in to, you know, really talk about, you know, what they got accomplished and that kind of thing.
 
Doug:But they’re going to always be much more in the mode of, you know, that next, lead that next thing that we’re going to do with it. I find that it’s sort of if it’s left to the closeout process, it gets lost amongst amongst punch lists and final invoices and things like that.
 
Victoria:So the what do you say to somebody that has been sending you referrals and you want more?
 
Doug:Just basically that, yeah, I send them pictures of my kids and tell them how expensive they are, you know. You know, I usually try to make a really big deal about the fact that, you know, if you’ve given me a referral, it’s because you wanted to take care of somebody. And I want you to know they were taken care.
 
Doug:Yeah. And so in that, I want you to also know that maybe there are some other things that you don’t know that that we do. There are some other circumstances that might be things to be listening for. These are some new programs, new classes, new whatever that we’re working on. Because if you like being in front of somebody and being able to help them, there’s probably more people you’re going to encounter if you’re truly a referral source, either because you used our service or you’re in the industry or whatever, that could potentially allow you to to do more of that.
 
Doug:And most people respond really, really well to all right.
 
Victoria:Great. Now, you know, one of your benefits as a consultant is the fact that you are a facilitator for roundtables. How do you feel that that helps you help your consulting clients?
 
Doug:Well, I think really in two ways. One is I tell people, you know, a lot of times consultants are folks that did something 30 years ago and they’re kind of still singing the same song, you know. And, you know, I don’t know how many times Bruce Springsteen is saying Born to Run, but I’m sure, you know, in the tens of thousands.
 
Doug:Not that it’s bad, but but you know we get re injected every what. Well less than every six months right. Multiple times a year with what’s going on in the industry, what are some of the creative solutions for addressing those things? What’s some collective thinking about things that have worked and not worked? It is like a recharge to any of the advice that we’re giving folks in a way that I just can’t imagine, like there’s no level of continuing education out there in any other consulting, right?
 
Doug:That I think could be as effective as.
 
Victoria:Oh, I totally agree. I get so revved up every time I do, you know, facilitate one of the meetings, just listening to the stories of the solutions and the sophistication of the people in these meetings. And they’re so passionate. It’s just wonderful stuff.
 
Doug:Yeah. And I think it’s very symbiotic, though, because when we’re working with folks that are outside, you know, the roundtables experience or maybe they haven’t gotten there yet, there’s still folks that have come up with some interesting ideas, some interesting challenges, things like that. And when you can inject that into the group discussion meetings. Yeah, it kind of takes it the other way.
 
Doug:And so there’s a benefit there as well.
 
Victoria:Absolutely. Yeah.
 
Mark:Doug is there any. I don’t know. Do you have one particular story or case study or, or even anecdote of a particularly successful program or referral engine that you could share or top level?
 
Doug:Yeah. Sure. So I mean, one of one of our beloved clients, probably the first Remodelers advantage client I ever worked with.
 
Mark:Oh, nice.
 
Doug:Yeah. And he’s still working with us, which is. Which is great. You know, he does a big end of project celebration. He’s very big on that, and it just breeds referral. Yeah. So what he does is when he shows somebody his roadmap for his project, and it’s got 23 steps. Step number 24 is the celebration party.
 
Doug:And he actually has like a whole band come in and serve some food and takes really good before pictures. But when you’re in the house, the before pictures on an easel and the after pictures, the room you’re standing in. And it’s very orchestrated. But when you sit down with a customer at the very beginning and say, step number 24 is going to be the celebration party right from the get go, it suggests we’re going to do this right, to have something to celebrate.
 
Doug:Yeah. Right. One thing politics taught me is you don’t plan a victory party if you think you’re going to lose. And so we set the tone right there. But then when you get to the end and the owner’s there, and they’re excited about their project, and you’ve brought the team that’s involved in the project, you know, our architect is here, our team is here.
 
Doug:He’ll usually get some certain color t shirt for the day. So they’re readily identifiable. So people can see it’s a whole team. And then the owner of the home puts their arm around them and says, you know, this was such a great process, which is not what people think about when they start doing their first remodeling project. And then we’ll stop and say, you know, now I want to also introduce Mr..
 
Doug:Mr.. And Mrs. Smith over there. Now they’re still in the before stage, but they’re our next success story. There are a group of people that are excited. And those people also invite some of their friends and neighbors. It is just a breeding ground. Plus, it all plays so well on social media. Absolutely right. I mean, it is just tailor made for saying like, this can be a great process, a fun process.
 
Doug:But from that process, we should be getting referral sources of people that have seen the work. People have experienced that other people in the industry.
 
Mark:Yeah. That’s fantastic. Yeah. All right. And for more tips, they’re going to have to call you.
 
Doug:Absolutely.
 
Mark:All right. How about the lightning round, Doug? What do you say?
 
Doug:Sure. Why not? Oh, and now here’s a remodelers advantage. Lightning round. It’s a draft.
 
Mark:All right, six questions and 60s. Here we go. What’s your favorite business book and why?
 
Doug:My favorite business book right now is The Referral Engine. Because we’re living in this thing.
 
Mark:If you weren’t a senior consultant here at your mother’s advantage, what do you think you’d be doing?
 
Doug:I think I’d be a long haul truck driver.
 
Mark:Well, he’s not very good at you.
 
Doug:A long haul truck driver.
 
Mark:On a scale of 1 to 10, how would you rate your memory?
 
Doug:I can’t really remember. Like a like a seven.
 
Mark:What’s your least favorite holiday? And.
 
Doug:Least favorite holiday? That’s a good one. Probably. Oh, I know Columbus, that I don’t think he discovered anything. I think he got lost.
 
Mark:On a scale of 1 to 10, how would you rate your memory?
 
Doug:307. So, listen.
 
Victoria:That’s awesome. This good, good episode here, Doug. So thank you for sharing a lot of, tips and expertise. And, you know, the book for that matter. So very cool. Now, before I let you go, however, I want you to share your five words of wisdom with our listening audience and why they resonate with you.
 
Doug:Sure. The five words are don’t predict results. Create them.
 
Victoria:How do you mean?
 
Doug:Well, you know, right now, like when people start the year and say it’s going to be an off year, a slow year. It leads might be slow. It’s like, hey, if leads are slow, we better be better at find them or we better be better at closing. Right. Create the result you want. The variable should be what it takes to get there, not what the outcomes are going to be.
 
Victoria:Right. Totally agree with that. Absolutely. Thank you so much. Oh, if people want to reach out to you directly, how would they do that?
 
Doug:Yeah. Super easy. Doug at Remodelers advantage.com. Woo hoo!
 
Victoria:All right. Great. Thank you so much. We appreciate you.
 
Mark:I think Doug.
 
Doug:Yep.
 
Victoria:You know he hit the nail on the head when he talked about the importance of referrals. You know I mean they’re just cold.
 
Mark:I love the idea. I mean, it is just a breeding ground of referrals. Yeah. With the celebration.
 
Victoria:But, you know, when you go to have to wait for a project to end, even people do it at their showrooms or in their offices or, you know, there’s all sorts of ways to get your clients in touch with other people who could become clients.
 
Mark:I think it’s important, too. It was a great point that was discussed. I think you prompted the question, but just recognizing and acknowledging the referral. Yeah. You know, it shouldn’t matter if it converts or not. Right. Just a thank you.
 
Victoria:You want to keep going?
 
Mark:Even if.
 
Victoria:You’re not.
 
Mark:There’s an appreciation there, right? You know, like Doug said, it’s if they don’t know that you even ever had a conversation with the person, they’re not going to be, excited to continue doing that.
 
Victoria:Right, right.
 
Mark:Yeah.
 
Victoria:So good.
 
Mark:Stuff. That was really good. All right. Well, we want to thank Doug for the insights on the importance of referral leads and how to generate them. And we want to thank you for listening week in and week out. I’m Mark Harari.
 
Victoria:And I’m Victoria Downing. See you next time.