Mark: Today on PowerTips Unscripted, we talked to Jef Forward and his wife and business partner, Monica, a Forward Design build remodel in Ann Arbor, Michigan. Being able to adapt and lead through crisis is a critical skill for every business owner to have after their best year ever. Jef and Monica. We’re gearing up for an even stronger 2019. Everything was on course until two key players, including Monica, were diagnosed with cancer.

Mark: One year later, they’re happy to say that everyone is alive. And they also hit all of their business goals. We’re going to hear how they did it in just a minute.

Victoria: Hi, I’m Victoria Downing and welcome to PowerTips Unscripted where we talk about tips, tactics and techniques to help you build a strong, profitable remodeling company. I’m here with my co-host, Mark Harari.

Mark: Hi there.

Victoria: Heidi. Hello. How are you?

Mark: I’m good. How are you? Good.

Victoria: It’s a rainy day here in Maryland. Kind of. It is? Yeah. Reminds me sort of. Of those gray, leaden skies of Michigan where I grew up. Not too far from where our guests are located today.

Mark: Yeah.

Victoria: You know, I think this is a really an important topic to talk about today. How to lead through crisis.

Mark: I, I’m so interested to hear. I mean, to be able to still stay on track, hit your goals. And with all of that, chaos and, you know, stirred up.

Mark: Everything just going haywire. I mean, to be able to do that is is incredible to me.

Victoria: I mean, just think about how difficult it must have been to keep your brain on task.

Mark: I know.

Victoria: It’s really a challenge. So let’s let’s dive in a little bit and hear from our guests today.

Mark: Yes. Yes.

Victoria: I’ve been very generous during their story. Jef forward with his wife, Monica, our business partners of Forward Design build remodel in Ann Arbor, Michigan. Jef has participated in every level at our Remodelers advantage, and he’s a member of the mentor for group. He’s also been a previous guest on this podcast. Now, over the last four years, Jef is focused on improving his coaching and leadership skills, resulting in improved client satisfaction, planned healthy growth, and a positive team culture.

Victoria: Jef was recently a semifinalist for the Fred Case entrepreneur Award and for the Remodelers Advantage Impact Award. Jef credits all of his success to the collaboration with Monica, their team, and the Remodelers advantage round Table. Hey buddy, thank you for being here. And Monica, it’s your first time on the show.

Monica: It is my first time.

Victoria: Thank you for joining. Jef. This is this is great and I really appreciate you telling your story. I’m sure it wasn’t easy to live through it all, and I don’t know if it’s very easy for you to even talk about now.

Monica: We we did really going through kind of gearing up for this that it is still kind of a raw topic or topic, I guess for, for me, and in these conversations, I really struggled with, how do we do this? When people hear cancer, you know, they, And it’s so sad. And, I was really conscious of not wanting to play the pity card or going for the sympathy, and this really wasn’t what it was about, right?

Monica: You just realized because we really moved through this last year, that this team was amazing and that we were able to continue and do what we were doing because of all of that. And so, you know, we realized that a lot of people are going to have crisis. Hopefully not this one, probably this one at some point.

Monica: But but there’s ways through it and there’s ways through it with success.

Jef: And we also wanted to share this story, one, you know, the celebrate our team. But I know that there’s a lot of, this happens a lot. And I know several people in the community that this has happened with, and everyone kind of goes through it differently. But I think this can be a positive story for people who are considering their at that point in their career, whether whether they’re going to hire or the team or the importance of bringing in the right team and the importance of culture that, this hopefully lays a little more weight into the value and that it’s a real value add for yourself and your clients.

Victoria: Now, just to get a little bit of background on your, company. How many employees did you have at that at the time that the crisis started to unfold?

Victoria: Okay. Wow. So you did have a pretty significant team at that point. So, like you say, Jef, if somebody’s sitting there saying, I’m not sure if I want to grow, well, okay. Are you going to continue to fill one role that you’re the only one in that role? That’s pretty that’s pretty a lot of risk goes with that, right?

Jef: Yes.

Victoria: So tell us tell us how it unfolded. You had a great year and 18. You’re heading into 19. You’re thinking things are good. You know who got sick. What was the immediate impact and all that. What’s the status now?

Monica: So yeah, so 18 was really great. We were just gearing up to and starting to implement the job process, which.

Victoria: Is.

Monica: A great game of business.

Victoria: Okay.

Monica: We’ve just been really excited about, really? He steered that ship completely. In end of October, early November, I realized something was happening. And after several appointments, was diagnosed in the middle of November with your ethereal cancer, which is a cancer that grows inside of your kidney. Okay. It turned out to be a pretty serious cancer.

Monica: The. We were hoping it would not be. I had several rounds of chemo and then had my kidney removed in February of last year. I’m almost two weeks to my one year anniversary. Wow. It was significant because at the time, I was the only estimator in the company.

Victoria: Oh, my.

Monica: And then two months after my diagnosis, one of our lead designers was diagnosed with ALS, which is a form of leukemia. And she was found to have, the Philadelphia chromosome, which really complicated her cancer. So she has been off just over a year now and is off indefinitely.

Victoria: Oh, wow. And did you have other designers? She was your lead designer at that time.

Monica: He was one of our leads. We had just hired another designer who started in early January. And so we had some veterans on the team. But a couple new people as well.

Victoria: Okay. Wow. So that must have just thrown you into a tizzy. It would have seemed, but yet it did it. So paint the picture. What else was going on in the business?

Jef: Well, the the great game of business was, our answer to a long promised a profit sharing plan to our employees. And we spent a lot of time developing that system. We actually played a pre-season, so to speak, in the fourth quarter. And, I would say easily six months of work went into developing this so we could start it on January 1st.

Victoria: Okay. We’ll stop there for a second and just back up just a tad. Tell our listening audience and you know, in a nutshell, what is the great game of business? Where did it come from and what what is it?

Jef: The great game of business is a way of running a company that gets everyone at all levels of the business. Acting, operating and acting and thinking as the owner or as an owner in making the company successful. It’s about fully engaging your employees by teaching them how the business works and what’s critical to its success.

Jef: Okay. And it uses open book management as a tool in the philosophy to to help teach and track.

Victoria: Okay. All right. Great. Thank you. Okay, so back to that. You’re getting it on. And you did a preseason. What does that term mean?

Jef: Well, so it’s a game. And we had to design our game. We had to design our scoreboard and we had to know what our key metrics were going to be, and who was going to be owning the line items. And so there’s, there’s a lot to go into it. And so we had hired a consultant, Zingerman’s, and there’s a train, training facility, which is basically an Ann Arbor and, we were able to set this up and set our schedule up.

Jef: So what what I mean by that is we met as a company once a week, and we reviewed our scoreboard relative to, the critical, items that we were tracking, and we were reporting on it. We were reporting on what what our plan was, what our forecast was, and then what the actual results were. So, and honestly, you know, as we were talking about this, we feel like that just by the fact that we met as a on a weekly basis.

Jef: Sorry.

Mark: So I take your time.

Jef: I get emotional easy. And part of what?

Victoria: It’s part of your charm, Jef. We love that about you.

Jef: So. Yeah. But just people that I think they’ve grown tired of me crying so much and.

Monica: You know.

Jef: Like, that’s. It’s kind of a running joke, but, they, So it really helped us. So that constant meeting, how kind of cement the kind of the culture that we want here. But I’m kind of getting ahead of myself.

Victoria: Okay. So you were working on the great game of business that also was going on at as the as the year was ending. Then then this then Monica’s illness came upon you and I imagine you had to both be absent a great deal of the time. For weeks.

Monica: No, I mean, we were we were, I was absent. It varied. Thankfully, in the in the world of cancer, mine was fast. I think, in comparison to some. I had chemo for a month, but I had it every two weeks for two days and then again. So I would be out anywhere from 5 to 8 days, come back to work for a couple days, and then go do it all again.

Monica: Oh, wow. Thankfully I had my chemo right down the street, so our office manager brought me my laptop one day, and I was able to kind of do things from there if I needed to. But I was very well covered here. So that for me, it was very important to still come in on the days I felt.

Monica: Well. Sitting at home wasn’t really useful for me.

Victoria: Okay. So you you wanted that activity to get.

Monica: Your brain working in that interaction? And then at our business manager shared with me the other day that the way by me coming in, I chose to kind of get through this whole process. As positive as I could and with a lot of humor. And she said that I probably underestimated the calming effect that that had on the group.

Monica: The fact that I could come in and joke around and, and still do as much as I could and, and have the impact that I was able to for that time period. Just made everybody feel like it was going to be okay.

Victoria: Oh, I’m sure, I’m sure.

Mark: So speaking of that, so how how did the what was the team’s reaction when they first found out and how did that come to pass?

Monica: We, waited to tell pretty much everyone in our lives, aside from a couple few people until we told the team because we thought it was very important that they hear from us and that they hear it very early. And we did share it with them at a globe meeting. There was a lot of surprise. Why was it sharing with many people?

Monica: What I was going through up until that point? There were tears, there were hugs. There was, just a lot of support. Physically. Emotionally. They they brought me gifts. They made me chemo care packages, flowers, cards, you know, text messages. When I got out of surgery, like it was, it was very humbling.

Victoria: That’s nice. Okay. So then Jef, you’re in the midst of all this. You’re telling your team you’re you’re concerned about Monica. How did you keep your head in the game or, or did you, were you able to allow yourself to step out.

Jef: No, I was not able to keep my head in the game. And I had to develop, a strategy on on what to do. I mean, I was, I was pretty lost for that.

Jef: And, but when we, when we finally told everyone and I saw, you know, the response, that really helped me because I had such an impending sense of doom over the whole thing.

Jef: You know, am I going to lose my wife? My goal is, you know, my family. Am I going to lose my our business? Am I going to lose our clients? I’m going to lose my my team. Yeah. So seeing how they initially responded just really buoyed, my soul with that. And, it had the biggest question that everyone had was kind of what’s what’s going to happen?

Jef: What’s next? And, as the the leader of the business, I had to make a decision. Are we are we going to keep our plans? Are we going to run with the status quo, or are we going to step back? And, it it and I felt such a commitment to deliver on this promise. You know, profit sharing plan, I mean, literally that had been in the conversation for three and a half years now, four years by this point.

Jef: So, I, I read I recognized that we had the people, we have the systems, and we have the right attitude that we can keep the goals that we set. And, and then I had to ask, you know, did they want to do that? Could they do that? Would they do that? And, you know, the first person I went to was, Tim, our production manager and, you know, went out quickly, followed, business manager and they felt, that we could and so I asked, I asked the team if they could and would want to do this, and, and they all said yes.

Jef: But I also had to acknowledge that I’m not going to be here. And right if I am here. I’m just I’m just there to to kind of see how they’re how things are going. Ask questions. And, you know, I asked for patience that I’m not going to be that quick to respond or, that I’m.

Jef: I might cry a lot. And, I found a book that really helped me and that was, Daring Greatly by Brené Brown. Which is about leading with vulnerability. And, you know, the idea that, vulnerability is, is kind of based on shame, and, and shame can come from the feeling, the social disconnection and not feeling worthy.

Jef: And those are all, you know, those living all of us. And so that book really helped me kind of find a balance of being present. And trying to focus on the fun we were having and the successes we were having. But in the end, I was able to make that transition solely based on the feedback I got from my team.

Jef: And, you know, the the overwhelming positiveness that that kind of came out of it. And they all we leaned in to them and they leaned into us, you know, really hard, which, so yeah, I for literally I want to say three and a half months. I showed up here and I, I put on, you know, the best attitude that I could and, and everyone, everyone carried through.

Victoria: So, you know, both of you had you both had significant roles in the company front facing significantly important roles. The only estimator. And you were still a primary salesperson, right? Jef?

Jef: We had, two project coordinators, but I’m still involved with the sales process. And with kind of initial design directions. Okay. So, yeah, I’m I’m still involved, with all of our clients.

Victoria: So how did you do? You know, what did you do to shed yourself like Monica? How did you shed some of your estimating duties? How did what did you do? How did you how do you manage that?

Monica: We were fortunate in that one of our team members, who was in the field at the time, actually applied for the estimator position about five years ago. And we I decided or we decided that time that I would end up taking over estimating. But we offered him a position in the field, and we knew he had the desire to kind of grow within the company.

Monica: And I felt very strongly that we needed to to lean on him, to ask him, because we did not have the luxury of time. Yeah, of bringing someone in to learn our process and learn our systems. And what we all know, I’m sure, is estimating is key. Yeah. You have you cannot mess that up, especially when it’s all resting on one person’s shoulder.

Monica: Right. So he graciously accepted it and came in and immediately, started training with me. And if I was out at a treatment or an appointment, he would go back in the field and support the field team and come in on those days that I can train him. So that when I was off for my larger chunk of time post-surgery, I was off for about a month.

Monica: At that point, he was pretty self-sufficient. Okay, now he does 95% of all the asked me.

Victoria: Oh, really? Oh, good. Yeah. So that works. I mean, that was a good thing. He was promoted, gave him more responsibilities, and.

Monica: It was because I think at one point just said, well, you know, I can jump back in and I think there’s just no way. There’s just no way to put anything else on his plate. The purpose was we had to take stuff off of both of us, right. So, we were very, very fortunate for Ryan, and he’s done a fabulous job.

Mark: And so now you’re. You’re back. What do you. What’s your role now, Monica? What do.

Victoria: I do?

Monica: Yeah, the million dollar question. No, it’s really hard when I came back because I. I had it replaced in every aspect of my life. Like, I didn’t have to pick up my kids. I didn’t have to make food. I didn’t have to get off the couch. I essentially gave my primary function away at work, and that was really emotionally challenging for me because I, you know, we’re not going to kick Ryan back out.

Monica: Yeah, it’s his position now. So, I still do a lot of miscellaneous things that kind of fall through the cracks. I work with safety. I work with H.R. I still collaborate with Ryan on some of the projects. I do have a couple projects that I’m working on right now with that, but we had started, kind of a sister company and interior furnishings company a couple years ago, and it has really gotten off the ground.

Monica: We did a little bit with it, and one of the new designers we brought in has a strong interiors background. And so I said, okay, let me do that. So I’ve been setting that company up and getting that rolling, as well as still maintaining my former duties.

Victoria: Okay.

Jef: And also she’s a huge leader in the company and very involved with all of our strategy, obviously. And I think she underplays that a little bit.

Victoria: Also, Jef, then what did you do to get I mean, you you told him you weren’t going to be there, but who took your role?

Jef: So, Tim, it kind of was a shared responsibility, but I would say as the general leader within the company team, production manager really stepped up, and he was the go to person for any and all questions. And Lynnette, was right, with him in terms of, answering all of the administration questions and, you know, really stepping up for running the office and being the, kind of the force treasurer inside the building, or upfront the design part.

Jef: But, and then Mike, both our sales team, they, they jumped right into this and, you know, they would just give me reports and updates and my, my job was to I still had the coach, I still had the, you know, I still had to be present as much as I could or have them feel supported.

Jef: That was my key. And and so I’m sorry, I want to reference another book, called, you know, coaching Habit. And, it’s it’s a, it’s a book about learning how to ask the right questions. And so, you know, I just got into the habit of asking a lot of questions and, you know, they would answer them in in a way that, you know, built my confidence in them, which which I already had, but it also built their confidence that I was trusting what they were saying and not second guessing or not try this or do that.

Jef: It was just asking and listening. So that that kind of was my modus operandi, you know, at that time.

Victoria: So, you know, nobody can predict when something like this will happen. What steps had you taken or would you take now to prepare even more strongly than you were prepared in this instance? Are there things you would have done or you would do differently now?

Jef: I would say making, having a more detailed report of our, of our team and, knowing what their future goals are. That is something that we, we do in our, yearly reviews. I want to know what where people want to be, where they want to go. And that’s within this company and eventually onward and outward.

Jef: Whether it’s only in their own business. But I was, you know, that that was I have that information, but it’s not shared information. So if something were to to me, no one would know, about those things. So. And thank you for asking that question, because that is I need to share that document and, my love for Monica to know and Tim and one out and everyone on our leadership team.

Monica: I think for me, I think it became really apparent having one person essentially doing an entire department could have really, really hurt us. Had we not had the lag time where I could have or I had that time with Ryan and we were able to bring him in. If I was out on a moment’s notice, that would have had a really huge impact.

Monica: And so that’s part of the reason that I still have a couple jobs and like, I have to keep my feet in it because I, I definitely want to prevent as much as possible something like that happened. Meaning we don’t have a backup.

Victoria: Okay. Yeah. All right. I think that would be like the whole idea of cross training right.

Monica: Yeah. You know.

Victoria: Whether you have two people or one person, at least to somebody else there knows how to do the job, they could step in even as a stopgap gap to get you through the worst of the crisis.

Monica: And yeah. And my like, I can’t be too right, because if something happens to one of us, we’re both pretty much out.

Victoria: So that’s right. That’s right.

Mark: That’s a good point.

Victoria: So tell us about the company right now. How are you feel and how’s everybody feeling about things. And and you know, what’s the status now?

Monica: I think the status is great, but this is really kind of brought us all a little closer. It’s a really great group of people that has a lot of fun together. We ended the great game in December with a win and a really nice profit share. Nice. Create all of the hard work. Really pay off for everyone, right?

Monica: I will be honest. This was. This was Jef ship to steer with a great game. And when I got sick, I said, I don’t think we should do it. I think you need to pause. He was adamant to push through. And it’s interesting because I’ll sit in meetings and a team member will speak up and say, you know, I was just thinking about the budget and holistically, and do we really need donuts at every meeting?

Monica: And, you know, it’s the good, like what? So they they are everyone holistically is coming up with mini games and different things. Just how to be more efficient in impacting the areas that they can impact, and to see that ownership and see that thoughtfulness, has been really a cool thing to watch.

Victoria: Very cool. Jef, any last thoughts?

Jef: Yeah, it’s been a fantastic year. You know, in terms of the results of the company, our hardest year to get through. Emotionally, both with obviously Monica and Marie. But I’m just I’m so proud of how the team came together. When Amory got sick, we threw a fundraiser for her, and we raised $10,000 to help in her transition.

Jef: You know, through this.

Monica: And which I have to point out, was, items that our team crafted or donated, really, for a silent auction because we have so many guys in the field who make really amazing things, and they donated all of these items that they made and raised all this money, and it was just really cool.

Jef: That’s awesome. Yeah. And another. So just we’ve we’ve transitioned everything into Google Photos. So I now I can quickly find all these photos. And I found this, a couple days ago, a picture with Monica had her hair. She had shaved. You know, at the start of chemo and, two of our carpenters, came in for at a go be meeting and shave their heads, too.

Victoria: I remember seeing that. That was awesome. Talk about moral support. You know. Wow. Yeah, I bet you that must have been a tear jerker.

Monica: Well, we had our, I had we I had my first chemo in the beginning of December, and four days later mustered it up and went to our end of the year dinner. And I was very ill, but I made it and talk to everyone, and, had several people just declare their love for me, which is super sweet.

Monica: And the next morning, Ryan came to our house and brought us cookies that he had made with his mom and his aunts and said that they were talking after I had left, and him and John wanted to ask permission to shave their heads with me. And I said, of course. And to this you have to tell us when it happens.

Monica: You have to tell us. So I sent them both a picture, and two days later I saw him and we were all there.

Victoria: It’s always great. That’s great.

Monica: Some of the team was actually upset. They’re like, we didn’t know this was happening.

Mark: Let’s go. Well, hey, guys, how about we, we do the great game of the PowerTips podcast, and we, do the lightning round. What do you think?

Jef: All right, let’s do it.

Mark: Who’s who’s going to answer the questions? How about we do? Monica? How’s that sound?

Monica: Okay, so it’d be nice.

Victoria: He’s always nice. I’m sorry. Yeah. Kinda. Sorta kinda.

Monica: Like.

Mark: Oh, and now here’s a reminder that.

Jef: He’s lightning round. It’s a try.

Mark: Okay, let’s put 60s on the clock. Here we go. What’s your favorite business book and why?

Monica: Okay, so I will be honest. I’m not the best, as is the reader. I leave that to my husband. But my favorite book that I have actually purchased for our team is called The Four Agreements, and it is very, useful in business and in person.

Mark: If you aren’t the owner of a remodeling company, what do you think you’d be doing?

Monica: I would most likely be selling real estate I did in the past. Go back to.

Mark: What? Are you not very good at?

Monica: I am not a good dancer.

Mark: Oh, you’re in your desk or your car? Which would you clean first?

Monica: My car.

Mark: Which is better? Reggae or jazz?

Monica: Reggae.

Mark: What’s your biggest pet peeve?

Monica: I have so many. This is actually a joke in our house. I just have a lot of issues. And so.

Mark: In one word. Describe yourself in high school.

Jef: Ooh.

Monica: Extroverted.

Mark: Okay, okay. You did good. So you just got awesome. That was great. There you go. That was painless. That was painless.

Monica: It was painless.

Victoria: So. Yeah. So thank you guys so much for sharing your story with us. I really appreciate it. And, you know, I think it is so important for people to pay attention. You know, we’ve been doing this working with Remodelers for, you know, over 30 years. And we’ve there’s been a lot of crises and a lot of families. And I think the things you shared today, I’m going to be very helpful to everybody else, start thinking about preparation and, you know, all the things you need to do to get through something as successfully as you did.

Victoria: Phenomenal. So congratulations on your fortitude and strength and all that. You. Now, before we let you go, I want you to share your five words of wisdom with our listening audience and why they resonate with you.

Jef: Okay, so five words to go further. Bring others.

Victoria: Okay, great. And why? Tell us what that’s for. For you.

Jef: Well, we wouldn’t have accomplished anything. We wouldn’t. Our business would look totally different today if we hadn’t done all the work with our team. And so we are at this point in time because of our team. So we’ve, I feel we’ve successfully brought others to get to this point.

Victoria: That’s wonderful. And you do that often. You’re such a generous member of Table Jef to all the time. So thank you so much for that. And Monica, thank you for sharing.

Jef: That was my pleasure. And I get so much out in return.

Mark: And you did so much you did great on on this interview because you are a crier in general. So I mean, I gotta, I gotta say, I was once out at dinner with you and they brought the wrong salad dressing, and you cried about this.

Jef: Mark, you kind of be nice.

Monica: Yeah.

Mark: I said I was going to be nice to Monica, not. Yeah, okay. No, this is great. Thank you guys got.

Monica: Her pretty good today.

Victoria: Yes. Thank you so much I appreciate it. Enjoy the rest of the Michigan winter and hopefully it’ll be sunny there again soon. But thank.

Monica: You guys.

Victoria: That was such an inspiring story. You know.

Jef: You.

Mark: Can’t prepare for something like that. I mean, you can talk about it, but how can you? It’s so difficult. And to be able to hold it together and it always comes down no matter what. It always comes down to your network and the people around you. And I think that at least what I took from it was the only way to really be prepared for something like this is to do a good job in building a team.

Mark: And because if you have the right team and you have good people, you can get through anything.

Victoria: You know and is awful as as cancer is and illness is a crisis can be, there are some benefits to the story. Like, you know, years ago I had a business partner and her husband became very ill and she had to step out. And one of the benefits is awful that it had to happen this way, but was that I was forced to step up, and it gave me a confidence that I had never had before because I was able to do it.

Victoria: And I’m sure their staff, especially Ryan, they talked about it, took over the estimating what a wonderful opportunity for him and how loyal he would feel.

Mark: Yeah, you’re talking about the silver lining, right? That’s the yes. And you should always try to find some good out of any situation. But yes, that’s 100%. You know, I think I should mention also that we have partnered with the American Cancer Society for our round tables, apparel and the roundtables group pride gear that we have on our store online.

Mark: 100% of the proceeds from every sale goes to the American Cancer Society. So to our members out there, it’s a great way to show your pride and excitement and love for round tables and for your round tables group. And also a great way to to support cancer research.

Victoria: And not to mention that they’re also super cool looking. They’re all retro designs, really cool. So not only do you get to do something good with the Cancer Society to wear some super cool gear at the same.

Mark: Time, yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. We’ll put a link to that, but you can just visit Remodelers events com slash store and check out the gear and apparel. But it was, it was great to hear from them. Yeah. And I’m so, so happy for them to, to have that kind of in the in the room. They’re married.

Mark: Right. You know it’s it’s awesome. Yeah. That was great.

Victoria: And thanks to the forward team for sharing. And another one is in the books.

Mark: Yes it is. That was great. So we want to thank Jef and Monica for taking the time and being willing to share this story. I know it wasn’t easy for them. And as always, we want to thank you for listening week in and week out. I am Mark Harari.

Victoria: And I’m Victoria Downing. See you next week.