Steve: Welcome to The Tim Faller Show, where production is paramount, and we discuss the tools, time and people associated with getting jobs done and making a profit.

Steve: On today’s episode of The Tim Faller Show, we will be talking about active listening and the job interview. With the help of special guest Christine Miles of The Crypt in Philadelphia, PA alongside Tim Faller, I’m your co-host, Steve Wheeler. Here is the Tim Faller Show.

Tim: Hey everyone, Tim Faller here. And welcome to the Tim Faller Show like we always do. We encourage you to send in ideas. possible guests and just information. We’d love to hear from you. also tell us how what a good job we’re doing. We’d like to hear that, too. Like to hear all that good news. So send that to me at Tim at Remodelers advantage.com.

Tim: So there’s an old bluegrass song that’s called the Matterhorn and one of the lines in the chorus goes like this. Men have tried and men have died to climb the Matterhorn. Now just be grateful I didn’t sing it for you. So the same is true for most of us as it relates to the hiring process and thinking that we’ve got a really good hire.

Tim: In other words, we think, you know, we interviewed several people. We’ve got the best person. And then what do we find out? So in many cases, they aren’t as good as they presented in that interview process. And then once we have that struggle, that challenge with them, we start kind of going back in our mind, kind of thinking about like, how did you know?

Tim: What did I see in the interview and things like that? And we go like, oh yeah, that. Oh, now I see it. Now I understand it. Now I kind of hear it for the first time. And it really has to do with the fact that we did not listen well in the interview. So perhaps we needed to fill a slot.

Tim: We just needed somebody. Perhaps we like them, like first impressions. I just like this person. Or maybe this has happened to me. Like we get to talking about a common hobby and we just forget about the fact that we’re interviewing for a job, not for a hobby. So in the interview process, the listening is really key. But how do you do it?

Tim: And then one of the other questions I have is like, how do you change your habits when you know, when we really do need someone, right. We need somebody to fill that position. How do we change that? Of course, there’s all the other things that happen, like difficult situations, whether it’s with a client or with another employee or with a spouse, even.

Tim: And we’re looking at these challenges. And again, we look back at it and we go, you know what? I just wasn’t paying attention or listening. So hopefully we’ll get some answers today. with our guest. So Steve, let’s jump right into it.

Steve: All right. So Christine Miles is an author of what is it Costing you Not to listen? The power of understanding to connect, influence, solve. And so she is a professional keynote speaker, consultant, executive coach, thought leader, entrepreneur and radio show host. She is the founder and CEO of the Quit. Additional information can be can be found out on WW equipped-people.com.

Steve: Welcome to the show Christine.

Christine: Well, thank you both for having me. I’m thrilled to be here.

Tim: Well this is really fantastic. And as I mentioned to you previous to getting on the air, so to speak, when I, when this, invitation to have you on the show came in, I just, I lit up. I got excited about it because this idea of listening has been a not that I’m great at it, but it’s been a pet peeve of mine for years and years and years and that we just don’t listen.

Tim: And so let’s start a little bit with your company equipped and, and I went on the web page and tell me about the listening gurus. I was I was intrigued by that. Give us a little information about your work.

Christine: Sure. Well, you know, we do a number of things. anything that really elevates the human skills to drive business results is what we’re focused on. What what I believe is that the foundation of the house to maybe intentionally use that metaphor, this the it’s the fact that we, you know, we need to know how to listen because that’s baseline, right?

Christine: Unfortunately, we teach people how to tell, talk it, know from the time that we’re little, we’re there’s no years of education in our system to teach people how to listen from kindergarten through grad school, really. And only 2% of people have had any kind of listening training. So they’re sets up the problem right. so we know it’s very costly to organizations, small and large, when they don’t know how to listen.

Christine: And we know they haven’t been taught, which is why we call it the foundation of the house. We also know this is a skill. It’s not inherent. It is absolutely learned. It needs to be practiced. because habits, as you said, are hard to break. And and creating new pathways in our brains, which is what we have to do to listen differently, is is something that is we’ve made it simple, but it’s not easy.

Christine: So the listening gurus are really to help create behavioral change. So when we do workshops and teach people how to listen differently, much like you teach athletes, you give them a coach and you help them learn how to apply the skills, not just understand what the skills are.

Tim: Yeah. So I was wondering, as we’re getting ready for this, like, why do we have to learn to listen? I mean, it’s like like kind of like your comment just suggested, you know, we grow up, you know, people teach us to talk and we learn all of that talking stuff. And yet we don’t learn how to listen.

Tim: So why don’t we learn how to listen? What’s what’s inherent in our world, where listening is a challenge for us?

Christine: I think it’s just it’s just so presumptive and assumptive that we’ll we’ll learn how to do it. It’s like walking. You have legs, you’ll learn how to walk and you have ears, so you’ll learn how to listen. But hearing and listening are distinctly two different things. So so there is just a presumption of that. And I think, I think the, the problems of listening happen gradually.

Christine: I kind of liken it to building. You don’t wake up unless you have an illness, and one day you just don’t have hair. There’s a recession of a hairline that happens gradually over time you don’t see. So listening problems are kind of like that. It’s tough. By a thousand cuts. There’s a wound. Oh, that didn’t hurt so bad.

Christine: But those wounds add up over time to where it’s so gaping that things are broken and they can’t necessarily be fixed. So I think it’s it’s a little bit of we’re we’re not really sure what’s happening until later, like you described in your intro.

Tim: Right. So what are some of those cuts? I, I’m, I’m, you’ve got me fascinated now with this idea of like what are some of those cuts that, that happen over time that create this challenge and listening.

Christine: Well let’s look at our personal relationships first. That’s an easy place we all relate to. Right. So we’re in a relationship with our kids, our spouse. And they say something they want to feel understood. It’s not really like please understand me. It’s the people put things out in the world and you miss it, right? And you miss it.

Christine: And then what happens? All that hurts a little. And then we move on and go about our day. But those cuts add up over time. So I used to I started my career as a therapist. I was the first five years I went to people’s houses myself at 22, starting my career. And I learned, like, why are people divorcing after 20 years and my 22 year old mind, I couldn’t figure it out right away.

Christine: And then I went, oh, like, there’s a focus on everything else. And then by the time you’re looking at each other, you’re going, what are we doing together anymore? Because we’re wounding each other by not understanding. As we change, grow and develop. The same thing happens in business, with our customers, with our employees, with each other, our teams.

Christine: So listening is really the greatest act of love. I believe.

Tim: So give us some basic listening theory because because, you know, you want us to learn this and obviously we’re not going to learn it in the next 30 minutes. But. Right. Give us some basic listening theory. What what is good listening. And then we’ll get right into the topic.

Christine: Well, the gold standard has been what’s called attentive listening. Let me show you I’m paying attention and therefore I’m listening. And I just find not to be so mediocre that it bothers me. It’s a little bit of a peeve, as you put it to. That’s, you know, look, I’m going to show you I’m attending, I’m going to show you that I’m being present, and that’s important, don’t get me wrong.

Christine: But that’s a pretty low bar to overcome. But that’s how hard it is. That’s how we have to go. Like, pay attention and that’ll be enough. So it is. It is much better than, you know, doing nothing. But it’s just it’s just underachieving in my opinion. So, so when we created this path to listening differently, it was really to, to reset the bar to a much higher standard where we’re uncovering the meaning of the message and not just attending to the listener.

Christine: And that that really transforms the conversation and then ultimately transforms the results and your relationships.

Tim: Yeah, I think that’s really great. I’ve been using an illustration recently where I was checking out of a hotel, and there’d been some commotion and some remodeling above me that morning, and the the guest, the desk clerk, said, how is your stay, Mr. Tyler? And I said it was pretty good. And he he keyed into the word pretty good.

Tim: and he said, well, wait a minute. What do you mean, pretty good? And I felt so much better than him just saying. Well, have a good day. Hope, you know, be safe in your travels.

Christine: Like I got away with it. Look what I did.

Tim: He he he it felt like he was listening because he asked that second question. Yeah. And and he wanted to know what was the meaning of pretty good. And so I had a little conversation with him. And so I felt I felt better about it anyway.

Christine: But you go back to that hotel.

Tim: You know, generally, I mean, I would if my, my host company that I was visiting sure, I sure.

Christine: Sure.

Tim: They’re on my own. But I would actually go back. Definitely.

Christine: But that that moment was meaningful. Otherwise it’s a, it’s a it’s a cut. Right. It’s a.

Tim: Yeah. And so I mean one of the things that shows it was meaningful is it stuck in my mind. And I’ve shared that story 50 times now happened as an illustration to particularly carpenters and project managers as they deal with clients when a client says, yeah, things are okay, no, boy, I could go like, yeah, we’re okay. Or I could go like, wait a minute, that’s not quite what we want yet.

Tim: And so I think that’s the the illustration that I get.

Christine: It is memorable though, isn’t it. Because so part of why I wrote the book is I really believe that people are thirsting to be understood, like we’re in a drought, an epidemic drought of understanding. And so it takes so little for people to feel really felt in this way. So that’s I mean, the fact that you that meant something to you and you, you it punctuated in your mind, I think is significant to that.

Tim: Yeah, it’s really cool. So let’s just talk let’s talk about the hiring process a little bit. And like I said, I’ve been in on this this thing where I’ve been trying to hire somebody and we start to talk and, and, you know, they seem like they’re going to be a perfect fit. But then when I look back, I, I missed the signals.

Tim: I missed the cues in the conversation. And so I’m just kind of I’m just going to throw it open to pristine and say like, like, what do we have to do in that setting to really know what? And a prospective employee is saying about themselves and, and what are some of the keys to really understanding them before we make the offer?

Christine: Well, I’m going to go back to what you said in the intro, which is like, you know, we’re at a time where we need bodies and people to fill spots, right? And what’s the it’s so what’s the expression? hungry shoppers, don’t make good buyers. Right. Sometimes.

Tim: Right, right.

Christine: So, so and I want to just say in terms of the problem, not only aren’t we educated, but the brain is the greatest enemy of listening. So there’s so many things happening, and our brain is a superpower. We have a logical brain and we have an emotional brain. This is very rudimentary. Put but simplistically put, that emotional brain is the superpower in the in the brain.

Christine: So you said it like somebody comes in, I’m hungry. I need a I need somebody, I like this person. You know, a story goes off in my head. They seem like a great guy. They seem to break out. I have a lot in common. They might be a good set. And we we. That story overtakes the conversation rather than really listening and digging in further.

Christine: So the first thing you know is, is really you have to listen to yourself. Listening starts often with ourselves before it starts with the other person. So what story am I telling myself? What? What you know, what position? I mean, it’s it’s like, you’ve probably said this to managers a million times in your career, Tim. Don’t manage by fear, right?

Christine: If you’re afraid to lose the employee, that’s the story. If you’re managing by fear, you’re not going to manage as well. Same with hiring. If you’re hiring out of oh, no, I got to capture somebody rather than are they really right for my company, my business. That’s a different story though, and loss. So pay attention to that and pay attention to those first impressions.

Christine: Is that on the surface and am my ceiling that story and where do I need to dig deeper? So that’s the first thing that really helps to overcome that enemy of listening.

Tim: Yeah. So I’ve been reading a book, recently about coaching, and one of the points that they make in the book is that you got to keep asking questions, basically. And so give us a little bit of feedback on the listening skill of asking questions.

Christine: So yeah, the one of my favorite books is it’s called The Tell is coaching. And it’s really just about that. Great, great coaches ask great questions. Right. And so but it’s first of all, when you’re thinking about the questions you have to ask what’s happening? Are you listening. Are you thinking about the questions.

Tim: Right.

Christine: But even that can be the enemy of listening. So how do you open up somebody and and kind of relax your brain. And it’s twofold. So the first thing is I believe as a listener it’s your responsibility to be the guide. So somebody listening is not a part of a passive act. It’s not just about attending. It’s like, I’m going to take your hand and we’re going to walk this path together, and I’m going to guide you where we need to go, because sometimes the teller can get lost.

Christine: Just like in an interview. Somebody starts talking, they go off past, you go with them, and now you’re both lost in the woods, right?

Tim: Right.

Christine: So being that guide is about asking the right questions. And one of the things you should be doing in an interview is getting past experiences to predict whether they’ll be good for your future business. Right. And that’s essentially getting stories. So when you’re getting a story just like a movie, you don’t want to start in the middle, right?

Christine: You. And that’s where people start to usually talk about the middle of the movie. Right? And when you start in the middle, you’re confused, disoriented. So one of the most powerful questions you can ask is one of six that we call the compass in the conversation, which is take me back to the beginning. So when somebody starts talking, how you can be the guide is simply to say, wait, wait, hold on, take me back.

Christine: Where did this start? Take me back to the beginning and watch how the story and the interview opens up. When we go back to the beginning.

Tim: Wow. I’m just writing down notes here. trying to trying to remember all this and, and and then I’m sitting here thinking, like, we’re going to have to have another podcast, but this is this is fantastic. So take me back to the beginning. And then what does that give you as you’re, as you’re looking to really see this person, really listen to who they are.

Tim: What does that process of going all the way back to the beginning give you that’s going to help you make a good decision about them?

Christine: Well, first of all, it relaxes the person talking or the candidate because now they’re in their own story. Right? Like if I said, Tim, take me back to the beginning of the hotel, like, you know, take me back. You’re now stepping into the story and you’re reliving that experience in a very authentic way. You’re not talking about surface things anymore.

Christine: Now you’re in the story with them. And through that, walking that path to the story together, you’re going to open up things that you were and discover things that you weren’t going to discover was a more pointed question. So that orients both the person speaking, the candidate in this case, and you as the interviewer that you’re on in the same place in the story.

Christine: And now you’re going to start that journey together. So that eliminates a lot of confusion. As I said, it opens up a different kind of dialog.

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Tim: Now let me go back to a little comment you made. And and maybe again my brain interpreting what you said, but it sounded like you said that if you’re trying to think of the next question, you’re not really listening. And so that would imply to me, is that good interviewing has a written set of questions and that you follow through those questions as opposed to just sort of figuring it out as you go.

Christine: Well, yes, you’re on to something. And and so what we looked at is how can we make this as simple as possible and, and calm the, the brain down so that you’re not, you know, planning and rehearsing and like, good journalists and therapists, there are six foundational questions that if you ask only those questions, you’ll get more than you would if you ask specific and pointed questions.

Christine: Now, they’re not the only questions you’re going to ever ask, but for them, if you start here, they’re like the they’re like the notes, the music, you know, the baseline. Right. And one of those questions is take me back to the beginning. Another one is and you’ve heard this before is tell me more. So sometimes we want to just again ask a pointed question.

Christine: And we kind of focus the story and shape it and contaminate it, rather than opening it up with the candidate. So tell me more then what happened? even. All prompt the teller, the talker, or the candidate in this case to share more about their experiences, who they are, etc. and it’s amazing how that opens up people when you just prompt them in a very curious but non pointed way.

Christine: There’s two I don’t know.

Tim: Go ahead Christine.

Christine: There’s a there’s two other questions in those six most powerful questions that are super important. And one is and they’re both related to the feelings. Now I know we’re in the home construction you know and remodeling business. But I also I’ve we’ve done work with you know and I grew up my dad was a farmer growing up, so I understand.

Christine: but people feel so we need to ask about feelings. And that really opens up another story. So when you ask the question how that make you feel, or it sounds like you felt, you’re tapping into both the logic and the emotions of that person, and that’s the combination that really unlocks a different kind of discovery process.

Tim: Yeah, I would say that, that’s probably never been asked in an interview for a carpenter or, or project managers. How did you feel about that? And I’m just I’m sort of being joke joking about it. Not it’s not I mean, we tend to deal with the technical stuff. Can you build this? Can you do that as and I can see I’m just sitting here listening.

Tim: I’m really listening, to the conversation and hearing, you know, if you ask somebody how they felt about that difficult client, you’re going to get a different answer than, what did you do with that difficulty.

Christine: Exactly.

Tim: And then you’re going to know how, if the if you hire them, you’re going to the how are they going to react to the difficult client that they.

Christine: Absolutely.

Tim: Love you. So that’s that’s gold right there that was worth every bit of this conversation.

Christine: I’m glad. I’m glad.

Tim: How do how do they feel? How does that make you feel. And just sort of, tracking down those those lines. Good. Yeah.

Christine: Good. And you’re not alone in your industry. I mean, there is something called the fallacy of uniqueness. Like, we all are unique and snowflakes, but there’s similarities. IT organizations, sales organizations, leadership all struggle because we’re not socialized to ask about emotions. We think it’s too personal.

Tim: Right.

Christine: But you’re working in a very personal sale and in a very personal space. People’s homes matter, their businesses. What you’re constructing is super personal, so you’re missing a lot if you’re missing the person.

Tim: Yeah, yeah. Well, anything else about the hiring process? Because I want to make sure we kind of wrap that up a little bit. But then I also just want to any other sort of business relationships, maybe employer employee kind of things where listening is a real challenge or has to really be focused on.

Christine: Well, just relating to the interview. I think this is the start of the relationship. And I always say, would you, you know, if you were interviewing and thinking like, do I want to get married after a few dates? That’s pretty much what an interview is, right? But we’re meeting someone. We’re dating them a few times, maybe have a 2 or 3 conversations, and then while we’re not exactly married, we know it’s easier, you know, to hire it to get to to lose somebody or get rid of somebody is a lot harder than once you get them in the door.

Christine: So it’s a costly endeavor. So this is the beginning of the relationship. So when you listen well first of all it helps you filter better. You know, I having been in the dating world and a few years ago I learned how to filter pretty quickly. You know, what you see isn’t necessarily what you get right. Listen well. And it also attracts the best talent.

Christine: So, you know, one of the stories I told in the book is like, I got a lot of second dates. And I thought, well, aren’t I amazing? Like, you know, I’ve gone a date and somebody wanted to ask me out again. I thought, this is fabulous. And then I realized, oh, it’s not me. They’re not asking anything about me.

Christine: They like the fact that I’m asking so much about them. The end that. And then. So I did an experiment. I stopped listening as much. I still listen, yeah, but I purposefully talk more about myself, interrupt to do that. And guess what? Didn’t get as many certain things.

Tim: That so fascinating.

Christine: Yeah, yeah.

Tim: And so I was going to ask the question like how do we hook them. Because I can sometimes I hear the listeners talking to me while we’re, while we’re doing these podcasts, and I’m hearing the listeners going, yeah, but Tim, I’m not going to get a second date with them. They’re going to they’re going to go across the street and get hired by somebody else.

Tim: Now, if I don’t hire that, if I don’t give them an offer right now. And so this is an incredible, insight into hooking them by listening to them.

Christine: Look how that person at the front desk helped you by listening differently. So we know we have to, you know, we have to pay them enough to take money off the table that you’re competitive. Right? Right. We know that you have to offer those kind of those carrots, but people want people want to go to work for people they like and make them feel good.

Christine: That’s how you retain talent. That’s how you attract talent. And so this is one of the steps that is a game changer or a differentiator when you really listen and understand and, and, and pay attention and you show interest in a different way, that’s a huge chunk.

Tim: Yeah. I mean, I I’ll, I’ll share right now with you. My wife is a therapist and

Christine: I don’t know whether to say I’m sorry or not.

Tim: No, no, she’s fantastic at it. But it’s pretty amazing for me to stand back and watch her interact with other people. Everybody loves Marianne because she listens to them and she just ask questions. And if I pay attention to it, it’s like, oh, 5%. This is who Marianne is, 95%. This is who the other person.

Christine: Is, the guest, isn’t it?

Tim: That makes her very effective at the therapy as well as developing relationships.

Christine: So yeah, that’s wonderful that you notice that it’s yeah, it’s so true.

Steve: Yeah. When I grew up, my dad had a, very close friend, and he’s probably one of the most well-liked people I’ve ever seen. charismatic. But the one thing you remember is that every time you see him, he’s asking about you and also telling you, last time you told me this, you know, and asking more, and you never really find out about him because.

Steve: But it makes you feel so incredible to be around him. And my dad would always equate it to if somebody ever gives you a stack of pictures and you’re looking through it, you’re always looking for yourself. You know, you, you know, really care about, you know, somebody values, you want to see yourself in those pictures, right?

Christine: That’s right.

Tim: So that’s.

Steve: Cool. My question is, is there things that we can do to, you know, in your book you have you’ve outlined, you know, how to actively listen and better listen. But are there things like meditation or things that you can almost like a developing a muscle that you can do that can help, this process as well?

Christine: Yeah. I, I you’re talking about mindfulness and really kind of calming the brain. And look, I’m all for those things from a wellness point point of view. I, I think from a pure muscle memory and listening thing, what you need is the tools like the, the analogy I use in the book is you wouldn’t go hiking in the woods for three weeks with, you know, nothing on in your backpack, right?

Christine: You need the tools to navigate safely and to get to the other side of the mountain. The same is true in a conversation, so the tools will do the work for you. It will calm your brain. You just have to practice and take them out of the backpack. I had a client say this works every time I remember to do it.

Steve: So yeah.

Christine: And then yeah, so it’s it’s repeating those things and practicing on strangers, loved ones. You there’s no shortage of people to to be a better listener. West. And you can really just all the time use this and it becomes second nature.

Steve: Yeah. That’s so cool. And one, you know, I wanna put you on the spot with this question. It’s fairly elementary, but you know, my one of my big challenges I come from the south side. So active listening I, I’ve always looked is incredibly important. but one thing that I, have always had a challenge is you meet a group of four people, and you’ve got four names.

Steve: And the whole time you’re working on your body language and delivering your name, right? You walk away and you go, I have no idea what their names are. Is there anything that, any skill or something that can improve that and maybe not, but just thought I would ask.

Christine: Well, yeah, there’s all kinds of mnemonic stuff you can do, and some of this is just what you’re good at listening for. Frankly, I don’t think people care if you remember their name. I think they care if you understand them. So I think we’re focused on the wrong thing. Names are very surface. So it’s like, look, I’m terrible with names.

Christine: I I’ll tell people I’m terrible things and I’ll remember your story. I’ll remember what you told me. That’s much more powerful than hey, Steve, you know, when I meet six people, what are our expectations? That’s where we’re crowding our brains with things that don’t really matter. And by the way, when you relax into it a little bit more than you actually do, remember more names.

Christine: But it’s it’s more important to seek understanding what’s going on with them rather than just what their names are, in my opinion.

Steve: Yeah. Now that makes sense.

Christine: So so one of the things back to your dad. I’m sorry, I just, I here’s a question. It’s, it’s great to be interesting, but it’s even more compelling to be interested.

Steve: Yeah, I love that.

Tim: Let’s maybe we need to change the tagline on the show a little bit. So, we’re gonna we’re gonna we’re gonna run out of time here. And, Christine, you referred to the book. give us the name of the book again, and how can people get it? And, just to some of my listeners out there, this is this is going on my reading list because I, I need to learn how to listen instead of just talk all the time.

Tim: So give us a little bit about that, and maybe then just in case there are some business owners out there, give us a little bit about the type of company you work with and how they might get in touch with you.

Christine: Sure. Thank you. the book is called what is it Costing you not to listen? you can get it on the the usual outlets, Amazon, Barnes and Noble, any of those places, as well as go to my website at equipped. Well, that’s EQ, by the way, for a reason. equipped with the t dash PEOPLE.com. And we work with all types of businesses.

Christine: There’s the good news for us is there’s no shortage of businesses that need help with listening. And the more we focused on this problem, the more we realize it solves a lot of the problems out there. Right? So, and we do work with, other construction, you know, Hvac construction companies. So this is a very familiar space for us.

Tim: Is there any size limit to the company? I guess.

Christine: No, no, I mean, generally we do coaching, but, you know, one of the things we try to do is create a common language. So typically we’re working with 15 or more, you know, people in a company, but that’s a fine size to go in and, and make a difference with.

Tim: Well this has been absolutely incredible. I’ve got a whole page of notes written down here, and, I’m, you know, if I’d love to have you back on in the future, maybe a little bit different tack, but just to talk about human nature is just such a critical thing in any business. And again, sometimes we focus on the nitty gritty of the business, but we don’t focus on the people.

Christine: And that’s.

Tim: Another topic. So thank you so much for taking some time out of your day. We really appreciate.

Christine: It. My pleasure. Thank you so much.

Steve: Thank you so much. Take care. Tim, you just said it, but I don’t think I’ve we’ve ever had a podcast where I’ve written so many notes. somebody you know, again that this is so important in sales and business and life and relationships, kind of thirsting for knowledge right now. And I’ll start with Christine’s book, but, where what what what did you pull from today?

Tim: Oh, man, I got I got to like, one of them was just, listen to as a person, but listen to yourself. Listen to the story that you’re telling yourself about the other person, and just, And I got to assume, like, you got to put that out of the way. You got to be interested in the other person.

Tim: learn the questions. The follow up questions. I get I don’t think I got all six of them, but, you know, tell me more and take me back to the beginning. And then how do you feel or how did that make you feel? We’re just a couple of those. And then one of the big things for me is just this idea of if you’re truly convinced the other person that you’re interested in them, there’s a greater chance they’re going to come work for you, then go work for somebody else.

Tim: In other words, it’s worth that extra time to let them know that you care about them as an individual as it relates to your work world. So those are those are just a few of the things. And, there’s just so much more in there.

Steve: Yeah. And you say, one part of the show seemed to pique your interest in terms of, the role play of an interview with a carpenter or somebody in the production side and asking them, how did you feel about that? Yeah. And so if you can maybe answer, like, if so much of carpentry or all of this is about the skills and kind of those hard skills, but showing the emotion or caring about like that just would unlock a lot, I think, in this field, in the trades and kind of that hardened image, but kind of just speak to that.

Steve: What do you think that’ll unlock for companies?

Tim: So for me, I think, I think getting people to tell their story and then asking them how they feel about it is going to be a predictor of how they’re going to react to a similar situation in your world. And so I like I said in the in the podcast, if if someone had a difficult client and they reacted like I had to go out to my truck and just yell, you know, like, okay, that’s how you felt angry.

Tim: You felt mad. You felt upset. Okay. I’m not sure I want that in my company because you’re going to experience another difficult client. How about you know, a conversation about a job that I did? You know, we lost. You know, it was a $200,000 project, and we lost $50,000 on it. How did that make you feel? Well, I got depressed about that.

Tim: Or, you know, I was challenged to do better the next time. Yeah, those are.

Steve: 200

Tim: Chances that may may indicate the success in my company. So that’s that was the thing I was to on.

Steve: Yeah.

Tim: Was those you know, how do you feel about the failures. How do you feel about the challenges. And that would be, I think, a good predictor of of what, what what what could happen in my company.

Steve: Yeah. And again, this is a podcast that I think we could probably have done three hours on because the tentacles in business go pretty deep. well, we want to thank Christine Miles for joining us today. And we always want to thank you for listening to another episode of The Tim Faller Show.

Tim: And remember, at the Tim Faller Show, we’re working hard to eliminate it is what it is from your vocabulary.

Steve: This has been another episode of The Tim Faller Show. Want to hire Tim and fast track your growth? Visit remodelers. advantage.com/consult to learn more. And if you’d like more information about roundtable, our world class peer advisory program, please send me an email at Steve at remodelers. advantage.com. And of course, don’t forget to subscribe to the show and comment on iTunes.

Steve: Thanks for listening. We’ll see you next week.