Mark: Today on PowerTips Unscripted, we talked to John Barron, founder of Vocal Communication in Business. Do you feel comfortable in yourself from presenting proposals to clients? Why should clients like the sound of your voice if you don’t, you might know what to say, but do you feel okay saying it? Well, believe it or not, voice training might be just the thing to skyrocket your success.

Mark: And John’s here to share what that means and how it can help. We’ll hear what he has to say in just a minute.

John: Come on. Beat the ball. Step.

Victoria: Do you understand the words that are coming out of my mind? Hi, I’m Victoria Downing and welcome to PowerTips Unscripted, where we talk about tips, tactics and techniques to help you build a strong, profitable remodeling company. And I’m here with my co-host, Mark Harari.

Mark: You sure? Are you sure? Are.

Victoria: I think you might need voice coach. Let’s see.

Mark: I’m very, very self-conscious. All right. Now, to have to use my voice.

Victoria: I still remember one of my very first speaking engagements. You know, and I’m from the Midwest, right? Yeah. And I came to the East Coast. I was doing a speaking engagement. And you do the evaluations, and somebody wrote. She’s got such a nasal voice. I’m like, oh, my God, I almost didn’t ever do it again.

Mark: Yeah. Dang, I, I hate the way I sound when I don’t like to even listen to these things. But everybody tells me that’s what I sound like, so I guess it’s right. Yeah. It doesn’t. It’s not in my head, though.

Victoria: That’s right. So, you know, we like to do all sorts of different kinds of topics in this particular topic. This gentleman, the speaker was, referral from one of our members, Chris Gate, who works out in the San Francisco area. So thank you, Chris.

Mark: Yeah. Chris. Thanks. This is going to be good.

Victoria: All right, let’s dive in.

Mark: Yes. Please do.

Victoria: John Barron is an expert in body language and voice coaching. He brings actor skills training to the business world. He was a professional actor. He owned and sold his own marketing business. He’s a teacher of the Alexander Technique. He’s a corporate trainer. And as Mark mentioned, the founder of vocal communication in Business. Period. So, John, thank you so much for being with us.

John: Hey. You’re welcome. That was a great introduction. And I, I was laughing away listening to what you had to say about your voice. Stories too. Yes.

Victoria: There are so many.

Mark: My first time speaking was thanks to Victoria forcing me to do it. And I think my voice must have cracked 400 times. I had a sheer panic.

Victoria: So now I don’t know if our listeners know this, but before we start the podcast, we ask our, guests to submit some questions just to get us started. Make sure we’re going in the right track. Just so you know that this was not my original thought. Right. I’m reading directly from a question that John gave me. Why the hell would construction industry professionals need voice training?

John: Well, I think our world has changed enormously in the past couple of years, especially as far as presenting to our clients are concerned. Many, many people are now having to do presentations on zoom, or even if they’re now doing them face to face, etc. this we have to realize that we’re in a different world. The old styles of presentation don’t really cut it anymore.

John: You know, the old idea of the, you know, the chirpy sales person being able to, rise up that over positive energy in order to make a presentation. Well, well, actually, with Remodelers, from what I understand, from working with, Chris, Chris gets installed when you go into to do a presentation or an estimate, etc. it can be quite a lengthy process.

John: It can be about an hour. So you think about that, the ways that you present yourself not just in what you say, but in how you say it is really, really important. Now, if you’re doing this by zoom, for instance, you have to also consider that that what’s really communicating, what you’ve got to communicate at that, that place, that point is, is your voice.

John: You can’t really rely on your, on your, your body language because, you know, you’re only in kind of TV mode, right?

Victoria: So when you’re talking about, you know, the presentations and presenting an estimate and so on, I mean, you’re not talking about just the the big meetings, right?

John: I think we need to look at a lot of things. We need to look at the the preparatory meetings, the big meeting. You know, when it’s time to see whether you whether you go ahead with the, with the job or not, but also afterwards when in dealing with your client, especially if things go don’t go so well one day and something doesn’t show up, you know, you have to finish early or whatever.

John: So things go wrong and how you’re able to bring more of an intentional use of your voice in order to present difficult subjects, but in a calm way, not in a difficult way, that then kind of generates that, that all the hype, that’s really negative hype.

Victoria: So instead of just going in and and I don’t know, I don’t know what happens to someone’s voice when they have that tension. Maybe their voice goes up or maybe they speak really rapidly. So you’re saying that just with voice training and understanding, we can use that as a tool to diffuse or reduce?

John: Yes, actually. And also but for oneself to put oneself at ease, that’s really, really important. Because when we’re stuck with the vocal habit of tension, for instance, if we’re tight in the larynx and we’re speaking too quickly and that’s our habit and the voice goes up, etc., etc., that’s a very limited way of presenting. And we want to be able to access much a much wider palette of expression that comes through our body language and our the sound of our voice, which is supposed to actually really us be the major things in in our presentation skills.

Victoria: So in terms of body language and so on, I mean, I know that actors spend years studying movement and so on. Yeah. How do you translate that to Remodelers? What do you what kind of training you do with them?

John: Well, yes, actor training can be quite extensive, you know, and actors, theater actors, they’ll go through a lot of movement training and they’ll go through a lot of vocal training. Of course, business people don’t need that, but what they really need is an understanding of what not to do.

Victoria: How do you mean?

John: Well, for instance, if you go in and you happen to be really, really tight and so like your larynx, that’s that’s not a good idea. And they want to learn ways of actually undoing that. We want to have access to the ease of breath. And for that we want to start to see of the ways that we’re just simply interfering with that with our natural functioning.

John: So it’s actually not so much about doing stuff, but recognizing what we’re doing that interferes with the without free movement and our free vocal expression, and then work to undo them.

Victoria: Besides the example of a tight larynx, what’s an example of what someone might be doing physically that would be impeding?

John: Okay, well, to, a frenetic gesture, but which will also go with a particular sound. Or if they’re monotone in their sound, they’ll oftentimes have. And a very non animated presentation that their energy levels will be too low. And of course, which is just the opposite of the frenetic one that can be way too high. Way to way too much movement in what, what they’re explaining.

John: And also it comes back to this ease, you see, the if you can, if you know how to really put yourself more at ease, that actually is the biggest indicator of confidence. And it’s this confidence that is infectious and it’s really what we want. Also, we want it for ourselves to be able to be more at ease in ourselves.

John: And by doing that, we actually put the client more at ease. When the client’s more at ease, they are able to come to an easier decision. But if they’re being asked to make a decision with a in a phonetic way, in a phonetically sounding way, or with frenetic movement, that’s going to make them uncomfortable. A lot of this happens unconsciously, of course.

Mark: You know, one thing that strikes me as a possible, similarity in acting and doing something like this in a sales role is an actor especially like a stage actor. You’re doing a show two shows a day for four months at a time, right? So you’re just repeating the same lines over and over again, and then your pace, it seems like you’ve heard the same spiel over and over.

Mark: So I’m just going to blow through this because I know it is. Is pace something that you can work on?

John: Oh, absolutely. This takes a little more thought because we real actors work with what we call dynamics, and that’s the way that a voice will naturally rise or slow down or quicken up. And but one wants to be able to connect to that because market, as you say, if you are doing the same spiel over and over again, it’s going to be stale to you.

John: Therefore, you want to make sure that it’s not so that it’s not stale to your client. And the, the obvious connection to the actor. Yeah. It’s actors are having to do so many performances of the same play over and over again. They have to really work to keep it alive so that they don’t just fall into a rut.

John: So and that requires a little bit of thought.

Victoria: Okay. I want to go back to the physical part again. I think I just find that fascinating. So let’s say that you have a client and you want that client to be more aware of what they’re doing. How do you do that mean? Do you go with them and observe them in a sales situation, or are there specific exercises or, mirror work or what do you do so they know how to move, I guess, in a more effective way.

John: If I’m trying to work with, in an online situation, there’s a certain amount that that I can do that I can work with. But it’s limited. Like, I can tell where people are, holding, because I’ve done it such a long time and trained in all this stuff. And and I will make suggestions about getting release.

John: It may be in the head, head, neck region, if that’s where they’re tight, if they’re really holding in their, pulling in their, their stomach so tightly, that’s going to affect their sound. If that eye is a fixed, etc., all these things that one can see what those individual habits are. But when I’m actually working one on one in the studio, I’m able to actually work with them.

John: I’m able to address more kinesthetic.

Victoria: Okay. So voice movement, all that. Let’s put this to the test a bit. I’m going to be Mark be our guinea pig here.

Mark: Oh no.

Victoria: So John, if you were to appraise how Mark’s voice sounds right now, what might you suggest to him?

John: Well, I think that’s very unfairly.

Mark: Brave of her, isn’t it? Isn’t that so brave of her? Yeah.

John: So I think we should turn it around and do it for both of you.

Victoria: Okay.

John: All right. In the spirit of true democracy, what do you think?

Mark: Absolutely.

John: Okay, so, Mark, help me out here, okay? Just for about 30s. Give me a little bit of a spiel. Is this your, you know, going into a meeting with a client and your aim is to to get the remodeling job?

Mark: Oh, my, I haven’t well, I haven’t sold remodeling in so long.

John: That’s all right.

Mark: Hi.

Mark: This is going to be so bad. So let me, let me ask you a couple questions. What is it you’re looking for in the company you hire?

John: Good. Okay.

Mark: Yeah.

John: That’s great. Mark. Okay. What we saw, and we’ve we seen this in you and and Victoria also is is being put on the spot, you know, going into a situation that’s somewhat challenging. What that does. And of course, we heard what you were saying before about, you know, your you not liking your sound, etc..

Mark: Right?

John: So I think one of the things to, to, to work with is to get you to the place where you actually would, you would actually enjoy your sound, especially if you’re putting in the SAT. If we’re putting a someone and we’re helping them to to find more ease in themselves. So what I would work with is did you notice that when you speak, sometimes there’s a little pause between each each phrase and I’m, I’m, I’m exaggerating a little bit just to, to be able to express that.

John: So and that’s a slight little staccato sound. And what happens there is that whenever you can have that sound to the listener, it can sound just a tiny little jarring. So, so what we would work with there is more of getting you in connection with your the ease of your breathing and just with the idea of making the sound continuous.

John: It’s kind of like what I’m doing now, where the sound flows one by one sound into the next. With that, you see, it can help to put the listener at ease, but also it means that they can’t. They can’t actually escape from what you’re saying, the less likely to interrupt you because it’s continuous. But if I’m going, like I’m speaking like this and I’m doing a slight, little jarring sounds here.

John: Again, the exaggeration, but not that, gives people the opportunity to actually to to jump in and not to listen. This is as easily. So that’s where that’s where we start.

Mark: One thing I already did pick up on you, you mentioned earlier that, you might notice somebody pulling in their stomachs affecting their sound. And I’m always trying to suck in my fat gut, so maybe that’s part of it. Maybe if I let that gut go, it’s okay.

John: We’re we’re on radio.

Victoria: It’s all right. That’s right.

John: I’m still worried.

Victoria: It’s all right. So what do you got for me?

Mark: Yeah, please. Later.

Victoria: That I’m a I’m a no right one to interrupt.

John: You quickly so that that pulling in of the stomach. What that does, it tightens the the muscles that then interfere with the three of the, the diaphragm and all the muscle needs to work cooperatively in concert. But when it’s pulled in and tight, it’s actually impeding the functioning of those of, of easy breathing. So it’s a gentle release that you want to allow to happen and not pull it in.

John: So it’s not a particular it’s not. I just went blank. Yes.

Mark: And what vertical stripes and. I you gotta you gotta criticize not critique criticize Victoria.

John: Oh my goodness. No no that’s that’s the thing you no one wants to go very very gentle and I do because because of the things that you we said earlier that people don’t like their voices and they’re actually a little bit sensitive about, so, you know, one has to go, you know, slowly, slowly at first and, and then people will gain in confidence when they start to hear the changes and they start to identify, like those changes.

John: So now with Victoria. Yeah, what I’m hearing is that I would just say, Victoria, that the voice is, is pitched a little high. And I think that that’s probably not your you’re natural, in the voice what they call is but use French words called saq and

Mark: Well no.

John: No no no no.

Mark: No no.

John: No. Well, you know, they spelt very differently. Okay.

Victoria: Man.

John: So I would, I would start to think about, first of all I would do some a few little exercises with Victoria just to kind of explore different ranges and the resonances within those ranges, and then especially to work with stretching of the tension in the, in the neck muscles, because the neck muscles, whenever you tighten the neck or if you’re moving the head primarily from the large neck muscles instead of those delicate little ones that we have right at the top of the spine, then all those tensions of the large neck muscles result in a constricted larynx.

John: So when we’re tightening in the head and neck, we’re unwittingly tightening in the laryngeal area here. And when we tighten and I’m tightening myself on purpose, you’ll see I’m not doing that sound. The voice is going up there and it’s staying in that slight monotone level. And I’m Victoria, I’m exaggerating. I have to keep saying this, that is absolutely not how you sound at all.

John: Is is that with you? Is the tweaking actually with both of you? It’s the tweaking. It’s not that, you know, we need to to bring out the operating theater or anything. Right.

Victoria: Thank goodness, thank goodness. Well that was good. That’s good. So, what if you were to give anybody and a remodeling contractor out there in the sales process doing presentations? One last bit of advice. What might it be?

John: I’d start to look a little bit at the pacing. Just find places where where you can naturally slow down, where you naturally allow yourself to quicken up. So if you’re saying something that needs consideration, this one needs to slow down a little bit. So people can hear this. But sometimes when we’re coming up with an idea that’s a little more creative and then of course we can start to increase the pace and that will happen.

John: But the thing I want to be really clear about with all this stuff, with playing dynamics, is it has to be natural so that you can’t be giving people just technical tips on push your voice up here, or they’re doing that because they’ll end up wooden. But if they can be aware of the emotional connection, like the ideas behind the words, some of the ideas that can be inspiring or can be ordinary, to allow the dynamics or the pitches, etc., just simply reflect the emotional connection to the words that you’re saying.

John: It’s what will make great actors their ability to be able to use their voice intentionally, and what can make good remodeler presenters.

Mark: Yeah, it’s good when when somebody works with you. But is this something? It’s is it a one session kind of thing? Is it a five year kind of know what. What are we time what’s give me a sense because I’ve never worked with a voice. Anything’s as you can see, it’s more as you can hear.

John: Well, I, I’ve able to to invite people to a, a 1.5 hour online training that has a little bit of like, 15 minutes of private work beforehand that people need to do by themselves to prepare themselves for the training course in this one. And a half hour training, I go through some of the foundations, just the basics, and it’s in what I think is just really necessary for a person in business to really know about their presentation skills and their vocal presentation skills.

John: They also get training materials and developed with through the training. In the training, excuse me. And then after the training and with and then after the training, I give them just one individual session. Why? Because everybody’s different and it’s important that they get that individual piece as well as the general piece. So but then after that, that’s all I think that people really need who are not, you know, having to go and do lots of public speaking or not having to appear in a theater night after night, you know, in a in a threatening play.

John: Yeah.

Mark: One last follow up question. Yeah. One last follow up question. Are you able to train anybody on having a really cool accent like that?

John: Yeah, I’m glad you brought that up because for me, I differ from some of my colleagues because I actually don’t like the idea of accent reduction. What what I like is I don’t want people to get rid of their accents. I want them to be proud of their accents. But the problem is, a lot of the times they’re not very clear, or their accents will actually have certain limitations for for them.

John: And for them vocally. And therefore it’s it’s kind of clamping down on what they’re potentially capable of, of, of, of doing so. So yeah. So I think it’s, it’s a question of getting clarity. So I work with clearing up people sounds. So it works with their hearing too, so that they know that they’re going to be heard by anyone, despite the accent.

John: And and I like the accents, unlike elephants.

Mark: Now I do to. Okay, so it’s time for us to, put you on the spot. We’re going to put you on the lightning round. You ready?

John: I’m ready. Go.

Mark: Okay. Oh, and now here’s the reminders. Advantage lightning round.

John: It’s a dry.

Mark: All right, here we go. We’re putting 60s on the clock. What’s your favorite business book and why?

John: My favorite business book. And why I’m going to pass on that one.

Mark: We have a first a pass a pass. If you weren’t a voice coach, what do you think you’d be doing?

John: Oh, I think I’d be traveling around different parts of the world if I really could, because that’s that’s what I did, a little tiny little bit in my younger years. I love it, and there’s still places I want to see.

Mark: What do you not very good at?

John: Administration and filing.

Mark: Your room, your desk or your car? Which would you clean first?

John: I oh my God, my shoes.

Mark: Name a movie you’ve seen more than ten times.

John: You know, I actually haven’t.

Mark: So you sound like Victoria.

Victoria: Yeah. Me neither. Oh, much.

Mark: Have you been told you look like someone famous and I.

John: I haven’t know what. What do you think?

Victoria: Like, I don’t know, a little bit like that.

John: Come on. Let’s let’s have a few ideas here.

Victoria: What?

Mark: What’s the weirdest thing you’ve ever eaten?

John: Oh my God, you’ve brought back a terrible memory. It’s a thing called durian fruit, which you get in some places in Malaysia. And it is the most revolting thing. And it’s a delicacy. And honestly, it’s like. It’s like trying to put old, sweaty socks in your mouth. It’s so. Oh, that was.

Mark: Delicious. Fantastic.

Victoria: Well, this is great, John. Thank you so much for being with us. Now, before I let you go, though, I want you to share your five words of wisdom with our listening audience and why they resonate with you.

John: Okay, my five words remodel yourself. That’s your advantage.

Victoria: Which of course, I love. But so is that. Why does that resonate with you, John?

John: Because we’re all a work in progress. If we’re developing, no matter what road we’re in, what profession we’re it. We need to keep on honing our skills because that’s what keeps things alive for us in our profession. It’s it’s an antidote to getting stale. So the more that you can work with your presentation skills and look to it, and to see how you can bring these into to use your voice to affect business outcome, that makes so much sense.

Victoria: Now, John, if somebody wants to learn more about you and what you do, where should they go? What should they do?

John: Yeah. Go to vocal communication in business.com. And what what does see you there is there’s a a training course that people individual business people can sign up for. And I’m doing this once every month. So yeah. So check it out on on my site. Yeah. Give me a call.

Victoria: Awesome. Thank you so much.

John: You’re welcome.

Victoria: We very much appreciate you being here with us. And thanks again to Chris Gate for sending you our way.

John: Okay.

Mark: Absolutely. Thanks, John.

John: All right. Thanks now. Bye bye.

Victoria: Well, this topic was a little bit different for us, wasn’t it?

Mark: It was definitely out there I can’t. I never, never in a million years would that have even crossed my mind.

Victoria: But you can really see how using your voice as effectively as possible could have a huge difference on on your results, right?

Mark: 100%. And that was a lot of fun too.

Victoria: Yes it was. Yeah. I’m not too sure about the getting critiqued part, but it was entertaining for sure.

Mark: You’re too you’re too pitchy.

Victoria: But yeah. And you’re just a so there you are. Yeah.

Mark: Yeah. Well, I think if I just let this gut out of of all fixed, maybe it’d be easier just to diet first. Yeah, maybe that’ll be good. That was that was fun. Well, we want to thank John for sharing that. Really, really insightful. Feedback. I don’t know, that was just I think this is something that more, more, more Remodelers than not should, should explore.

Mark: It’s it’s really interesting. Yeah. So we want to thank John for sharing that. And of course we want to thank you for listening week in and week out I’m Mark Harari.

Victoria: And I’m Victoria Downing. See you next time.

Mark: Well that sounded kind of raspy. Can you try that again?

Victoria: Are you doing that a purpose?

Mark: Yeah.

Victoria: You don’t really want me to do it again.

Mark: No. It’s fine. Okay. Well, you can if you want. I don’t.