Steve: Welcome to the Tim Faller Show, where production is paramount, and we discuss the tools, time and people associated with getting jobs done and making a profit.

Steve: On today’s episode of The Tim Faller Show, we will be talking about production and insurance restoration with the help of special guest Mike Carey of Carey Contracting in Michigan’s Upper Peninsula, alongside Tim Faller. I’m your co-host, Steve Wheeler. Here is The Tim Faller Show.

Tim: Hey everyone, Tim Faller here, and welcome to The Tim Faller Show. So I’ve got a hunch that many of the people that listen to this podcast are either full line remodelers that do design build or some that use architects in that design build. And what we try to do here is bring a lot of different perspectives to, everyone out there.

Tim: And so I think we can learn something from people who are outside of our primary industry. And so in this case, we’re talking about outside our industry in the fact that we’re talking about insurance restoration and, in some cases, it’s a whole nother world. And in other cases it’s very, very similar to what we do. In other words, we’re talking about companies that respond to a fire or a leaky faucet or a flood that goes through.

Tim: working with the clients and I guess in some ways, the client is also the insurance company. And then they, get in there and rebuild the place. So I’ve actually visited with a couple of companies that do this kind of work, and it’s quite fascinating to see, how it all, evolves. And so much of it’s the same in the rebuilding of the structure.

Tim: But there are very, very important differences. So even though a lot of you might not do insurance restoration work out there, I think there’s probably some golden nuggets in here that if we could learn a little bit from the insurance folks that maybe we can go away and be better remodelers, as a matter of fact, and maybe you want to get into insurance work, I don’t know, I guess we’ll find some of those things.

Tim: So I like to go ahead and get started and see what pops up. Steve.

Steve: Yeah, here we go. Well, Mike Carey of Carey Contracting has been in business for 35 years with insurance restoration being a part of that for the past 25 years. Early in his career, the company simply fell into fire damage restoration, and Mike decided to go to adjuster school, not to become an adjuster, but to learn the industry from their perspective to better enable them to provide services.

Steve: They have been. They have since completed industrial fire restoration, medical apartments, commercial, you name it. After so many years in the industry, they’ve come to know not only the field adjusters, but the corporate bosses as well. One thing they strive for is to not take sides, looking at each project objectively and presenting the data to all parties, letting owner and insurance work out the coverage.

Steve: Welcome to the show, Mike.

Mike: Yeah. Thank you. Appreciate you guys having me on.

Tim: Hey, this is pretty pretty much a lot. This is a lot of fun. So I’m really looking forward to getting into this. So just give us a little bit more information about your business. What, do you do for line remodeling and insurance restoration, and if so, what are the percentages that you would have in there?

Mike: Yeah, we’re you know, we’re in Michigan’s Upper Peninsula, but we call it anything for a buck club because it’s a very rural area. So we pretty much have to do it all. So. So we do commercial like commercial anyway, a little bit of industrial, residential remodeling, commercial remodeling and, and a good share of it. Well, 50% of it, is insurance restoration.

Mike: And the nice part about insurance restoration is it’s kind of like a funeral or death. There’s always it’s always going to happen. There’s, you know, it’s it’s very unpredictable in that it’s, a roller coaster, but it’s recession proof, you know, that no matter what time of year or what the economy is, there’s going to be restoration. So many years, the insurance restoration side has saved us in down economy is because, you know, it doesn’t know a bad economy.

Mike: Fire is going to happen when it happens. So that part has been a little bit of a saving grace. It is difficult. You know, you definitely have to have a niche at it. but once you learn it, it’s it can be rewarding. It’s rewarding helping the client, you know, to get out of a, very bad situation and, and back and putting their life back together.

Tim: So we’ll we’ll get back to the client in a little bit and just talk about how this is different than that regular remodeling world, but just give us, give us a little bit of an idea of how does a job come to you? I know in most of our worlds, you know, we’re marketing and we, you know, put the word out there and then we wait for the phone to ring and, you know, that kind of thing.

Tim: So give us a little bit better idea of how it works in the insurance restoration world that you actually end up with a job, I guess, like from, from the first call that comes in to when you’re actually out there working on it.

Mike: It well, it’s, it’s, you know, when you’ve been in business 35 years, it’s a little different because we’ve we’re so known at it at this point that when, when a customer has a fire, they talk to a lot of friends and family and they say, you must call these people. Okay. So but but in the early days and if you’re, if somebody wants to start this industry, it is marketing and it’s it’s going around to all the insurance agents would be starters and and just dropping off cards and say, hey, I do this line of work.

Mike: If you see if anything, we’d appreciate a call. So the agents as a marketing technique, but for us, pretty much it’s reputation from both the adjusters and the owner, the adjusters, like, referring people to us because we know the system. We provide all the data. When I go back to insurance school, you provide all the data in a way that the insurance company likes to see it.

Mike: So. And to the customer, we’re they have a reputation of just follow through in making the process very smooth. So it’s not a complicated process. So right now for the most part, the way it comes to us is purely word of mouth from both the insurance side and the customer side. But if you’re starting out, the way to do it is is you meet with insurance, industry agents and adjusters and just knock on their door, drop them a card, say hi, stay in touch three or 4 or 5 times a year.

Mike: Just touch points that many times a year just to stay in front.

Tim: So when a loss actually occurs, it’s the client that calls you. Or is it the adjuster that calls you.

Mike: 90% of the time it’s the client that calls us. but we do have so the adjuster, because the adjuster can’t really refer, but so they’ll get to a customer rather than customers that might say, we don’t know anybody, we have no clue who is going to help us. And the adjuster might say, you might try these people or the agent might do this.

Mike: You might try these people. They try not to refer specifically, but they do throw the hat into the ring to say if I, you know, reach out to them and see what they can do for you.

Tim: So you so somebody from your office heads out there and let’s just say it was a fire. How does that then develop? How does the job then develop from the client came in and called you. And so where does it go from there.

Mike: So that and I’m glad you brought that up. So that’s an interesting part of this. That’s actually the critical part of this. So somebody calls with a fire. We go in with a document. It’s a one page authorization to repair. And we meet with the customer. We look through the loss. We talk them through what our company can do, how we do it.

Mike: We might bring some marketing material, mainly saying these are past customers. You’re welcome to call them. we do encourage them not to do anything dramatic, even signing with us. Do not just give it three or 4 or 5 days to calm down because it’s a highly stressful event. They might not be making rational decisions. So we we present ourselves.

Mike: We show them what we can do, how we can make the process move. We do give them that document and say, before we go further, we do need you to sign that document because it it’s not insurance, it’s a process. And it could be AA6 month process. It’s not just a matter of writing an estimate, signing it and producing it.

Mike: It is a process. And it’s a very labor intensive office labor intensive process. So we we give them that document, walk through everything they need to do, and we even encourage them to meet others because you really want to. Good. in my opinion, it has to be a good gut relationship. You have to feel good about who you’re working with and if if you have that good feeling, it’s going to be a smooth project, a project that if you if you have that and that goes both directions, you know, that’s something more as well.

Mike: because sometimes we’ll meet with what’s called a player. and 99.9% of the people in the world just want it done. They want it done right. They don’t want a dime extra. but they don’t want a dime, shorty. They just want it fair. but every now and then you get a summary that really wants to tweak the system, and, and that’s a red flag for us because they will they will tweak us just as quickly as the insurance company.

Mike: So we’ll flag and and then point to what we call a player. We kind of, you know, stray away because it’s just going to not be fun for anybody. And why get involved. So so that’s kind of the first step is stepping through there. We do offer, stop loss services to say we will come in immediately.

Mike: We’ll board up, we’ll take out some valuable contents and then let it rest. Just calm down, catch, you know, catch your breath, make sure you’re doing the right thing. Don’t do anything rash. And once a week or 2 or 3 is gone by and. And the stress level has come down, then let’s move forward and and come out this in a objective way.

Tim: So in preparation for all this we had a few emails back and forth and there were three things that you mentioned that might be sort of different from a production standpoint. you had the demolition and discovery, the documentation and the tracking estimated, versus as Bill. So could you just make to have, you know, some brief comments on each one of those three and what that means for your business.

Mike: Are demolition and discovery and an insurance loss? there’s often 99% of the time you can only see what you can see. There’s things that are hidden that you have no clue what you’re going to encounter. So that’s demolition and discovery that the insurance company is okay with. Let’s just go in and take things apart, open things up, see what’s going on, and then stop again, because we’ve we’ve discovered now we’ve, you know, taken it to the point where, yes, everybody can see exactly what has to happen and then we move forward.

Tim: Yeah. So yeah. So I’m sitting here thinking like, wouldn’t all the production people in the world love that love to be able to do that. They’d love to be able to go into a house and tear it apart and then go, okay, now let’s do the estimate.

Steve: Yeah.

Mike: And yeah. And that’s, you know, the the insurance industry does not want us guessing. You know, we can say we think this is what’s going to have to happen. So we put that in their estimate. And that’s just a no go for them. They they want you to write what you can see period. And then deal with what’s called a supplement.

Mike: So so that’s why we can say, you know, and the senior adjusters are very good to work with. They understand the process. It’s the rookie adjusters that do not. So the senior adjusters understand. Well, as we do that we have to open it up. We have to see what’s going on in order to know just what exactly we have to do.

Steve: I mean, it’s a quick question in my in this phase, when are you and when and how are you getting paid? Is it a time and materials on the demolition discovery?

Mike: In a way it is. but we use a program called Exact Made. it’s insurance accepted software. so in a way, it’s time on material because we open it up. and then we can write in our line items for everything we’ve done. So in, in one way, it’s that so we open it up. That’s the demolition and discovery.

Mike: And every adjuster, sometimes we bring in engineers, a structural engineer. We’ll bring in electricians, plumbing, heating, whatever it takes to get that discovery mode, including once we’ve spent a week or two, then we bring the adjuster back in and say, okay, now we can see what’s going on. This is what we have to do. The big thing is agreeing to a scope of work.

Mike: So that’s that’s what that part, the demolition and discovery. Okay. The other was probably if I remember the three I’m trying to remember the three documentation. Oh that that one is critical. Every project foreman should have a cell phone. The insurance industry really has no issue paying for the loss so long as you can prove it. So if you have a picture, and let’s say you tear something apart and you take a picture of it, and then you do temporary shore brace and you take a picture of that, and then you do the framing and you take a picture of that, and it’s not just closeup photos, it’s backup overview photos so they can

Mike: see what’s going on. But if you can show that you did the work, this is what it took. This is what you use. You track your man hours. They really don’t have they. Every contractor has to understand the adjuster has a boss. He has to fill out his report and submit it for review. And if his documentation isn’t there.

Mike: This is part of what I learned when I went about adjusting is it’s just a matter of documentation. So documentation is key and photos are the best form of documentation. It’s very hard to get paid if you just say, well, we had to tear it apart. We reframed it and it’s good now. Yeah. And there’s zero documentation. There’s, you know, who would say so it’s just a matter of proper documentation.

Mike: And then the, the worst headache for the product managers is the insurance versus as built. And every adjuster knows and we keep them right up front with that. the customer is going to change it. And the insurance company says, no, we don’t care if they change it. We only allow for what was, you know, damage what what they owe for.

Mike: And that’s where we talk about being objective. We don’t take sides. We say this is the insurance part responsibility and this is the owner’s responsibility. And we let them know as well. As you know, that is not the insurance company’s problem. That is your problem, you know, not theirs. That was not that might be damage, but it wasn’t caused by the fire that was damaged.

Mike: You know, it was something else. So that is your issue. And and with that, that in itself helps create a smooth process when we can be that buffer between insurance and owner, where you might think that they owe for it, then we can objectively say if they don’t, there’s whether there’s this insurance company or any other, there’s not insurance company out there that’s going to pay for that.

Mike: So that just helps them calm down and say, all right, if that’s not normal, but it is, you know, the you give the the documents to the foreman, the project manager and say insurance industry is responsible for floor covering the top layer of flooring only, even if there’s hardwood down underneath. If they had carpet on top, that’s what they get paid for.

Mike: And that’s a big argument, is we just say that’s your top layer of flooring. That’s what you get paid for. They’re all the same. Don’t try to argue it. You can try to argue, okay, you’re not going to win. Get upset if you don’t. And then we tell the you know the that they’re paid for carpet $1,000. They want to move to hardwood $8,000.

Mike: We just have to track the difference. So insurance industry you’re responsible for the thousand homeowner. We’re going to credit that thousand against the hardwood. So and I you know so you owe 7000. But it’s then that happens all over the project. You know different trim different two tone paint wallpaper, you name it. That’s the biggest headache of tracking the as built to the insurance as to what they’re responsible for and what the homeowner wants.

Tim: So in some ways, though, it sounds like it might be more clear in the insurance world, like what the client is paying for versus what the insurance company is paying for that in the the regular world where the client goes, no, no, no, I thought this was included. And and has, you know, a conversation or quote, a fight unquote, with the contractor about you promised me this and you promise me that.

Tim: So it’s almost like it might be more clear in that insurance world. And I was just sitting here thinking that that the documentation part of the of the regular restoration or regular remodeling world is so much more critical because it isn’t that clear.

Mike: And actually, you’re right, I never thought of it from that perspective. But we are forced to be very detail oriented. and it makes it very easy, you know, to say, you know, there could be a document that’s a, you know, 20, 30, 50 pages long on everything where they then we can easily go to a page. And it’s sometimes overwhelming for a homeowner to see a document that big.

Mike: Right. so you try not to confuse them, but it is easy to point out and say, look, we had $400 for a window. It’s what you had. You picked out a patio door. That’s what this is. Oh, here’s the here’s the difference if you want to go for it, you know, approve it. and if you don’t, the other one, as far as production, when you hit these problems that, we just push through them and, you know, sometimes you say, well, now we have to stop.

Mike: We have to write a change order. We have to get adjusters approval, owners approval. and I change orders. People think they’re profitable. They’re a nightmare. You know what we could do with change orders would be much more profitable. So we just push through the change and document it and know that, you know, if it’s insurance, we again have enough experience to know that if we document it and it’s legit, they’re going to approve it.

Mike: It’s just a no brainer. So we just push through there with the change document on it, write the change orders, send it to the insurance company and say, look, this is what happened. This is what we had to do. Here’s the detail. And and most of them don’t have a, you know, a problem. However, we have learned to spot the bad insurance companies and we avoid those as well, much like the player sometimes.

Mike: Okay, okay. Bad players insurance industry as well. So if we see those certain names come up, we just conveniently say, you know, we’re kind of booked right now. We can’t really deal with it. and move on. And the other ones that are very good will work with all day long. So it goes both ways.

Tim: So one of the things that I’ve heard through working with several of these companies is this idea of code improvement. And I know like electrical code, and many of the old houses didn’t have receptacles in all the places, especially like a kitchen. there won’t be a 20 amp circuit dedicated to the kitchen, and there won’t be a dedicated circuit for all the appliance or each appliance.

Tim: So how do you deal with the fact that this is all going back? But you’ve got an inspector? Possibly. And I don’t know, like in jury jurisdiction, it might be different, but how do you deal with, code improvements?

Mike: So code upgrade coverage is a specific thing on their policy. Some have it, some don’t. Okay. So it’s a little bit so if you have most policies have code upgrade coverage. but some of them are limited to a certain amount. Five 1020 it’s rarely it’s unlimited. so if it is code upgrade in coverage, we just have to document it again and show that this is today’s code.

Mike: We must bring it up to code and we have to separate it. What is the normal fire restoration and rewiring and what is code upgrade. So we just have to separate it. And the danger zone is if they’re required to bring it up to code and they don’t have coverage for it. Right, right. And now here’s a customer that may not have the money for it either.

Mike: You know, they’re thrown into this. They did not plan this remodeling project. You know, they had no money set aside. Right. And now here’s $1,000 bill to bring it up to code that they just don’t have. So that’s a little tricky. So yeah, we do what?

Steve: So, Mike, you, I assume that all of the, the labor in your company does both the remodeling design build remodeling side and the insurance restoration. And is there a different way that they need to approach that in terms of the way they go about things?

Mike: not in ours because we’ve we’ve kind of trained everybody to be document oriented. so, so once they’re handed a job, you know, they’re whether it’s a regular restoration project or an insurance restoration project, they executed the same, if there’s, you know, they’ll see a scope of work. And if there’s something beyond the scope, they’ll know to document it, photograph it, that sort of thing.

Mike: it’s really then just keeping the adjuster informed. If there’s something really strange, you know, if there’s a big ticket item, we really need to call them up and say, this is what’s going on. but otherwise it’s it’s really very similar. Once it’s once the project’s getting executed. It’s it’s pretty straightforward. We’ve offered a lot of training on, you know, how to do fire restoration.

Mike: you know, hazard communication and that sort of thing. So, you know, and that’s just the same in remodeling or insurance, whether you spot asbestos or, black mold or whatever the case may be, you know, just identifying that and dealing with it.

Tim: So just let’s talk for a second. You you mentioned when they’re handed a job, give us a little rundown on what your field crew gets from you or from your sales team or whatever you call them, that to prepare them to go out there and do this restoration. What what kind of documentation do they get?

Mike: So there is a pretty decent, package of off. So number one, I should mention, the first thing we do when we get on site is we photograph existing condition pretty extensively, even if it’s a pure black fire, we photograph it from every corner of the room. We send it all four corners, shoot every corner, we shoot the floor, we shoot the ceiling so they can.

Mike: So and the objective to this is, let’s say there’s a whole wall of photos that they know exactly what photos go. Where? What? It’s all tore apart so they know what it’s supposed to look like when it goes back together. So there’s this pre document tation that says including, because this hits us, you know, there’s a dent in the refrigerator or there’s paint on the trim existing that, that you know, and all we’re paid to do is detach and reset.

Mike: We’re not paid to replace. And all of a sudden the painter did their thing and they say, look, they painted our trim. And so you have a document to show that. Well, there was paint on the trim before. Oh, wow. so that so there’s a pre package that’s, a lot of photos that they have for that.

Mike: And then there is a, a, a component sheet so they can see this is the, you know, the windows. We need 12 windows at $400 a piece. And they need to shop those windows and make sure they’re in that budget. Or, you know, the homeowner might say we want to upgrade. So there’s a component. And then there’s a labor component that says you have so many hours for framing, so many hours for demolition, so many hours for drywall.

Mike: And they’re supposed to track that for us and say, we’re ahead on demolition, behind on framing, that sort of thing. So they’re managing to those numbers. and then they’re given a specification sheet that might say the homeowner has selected this, this, this, and this, and here’s where we price them from so they know where to buy it.

Mike: Here’s your subcontractors, here’s your subcontractor quotes. So here’s their documents. if the depending on what kind of time ahead of time, here’s the paint colors. Here’s the flooring specs. You know here’s what you’re choosing. So the more time we can put in upfront the better. And I know one of your comments was about rapidly getting somebody into their home.

Mike: and that is kind of a point. But we push more for the upfront detail than we do the speed in the end, just because it just makes it smoother. If we can have that extra week or two upfront. And it’s sometimes frustrating for the homeowner because they want to see something happening, it is happening. It’s just they can’t see it.

Mike: So, you know, getting all that documentation done. and again, staying up with the adjusters saying, look, you know, we’re good. You’re only paying $300 for this vanity, but they’re putting in a new, you know, $1,200 vanity. And, you know, so when they see the after photo, they know that the homeowner was good with it. So there again, we stay package with that.

Mike: And then the production turns in a sheet at the end as well as before they finish somebody from the office, a production manager, will go through and provide a checklist that says, yes, we did 400, lineal feet of trim, approx. Versus 1200 lineal feet. You know, to know that something else didn’t happen, eight windows, that sort of thing.

Mike: And then we once the job closes out, we have an autopsy to say what went good. What didn’t go well, what could we have done differently? How is and 99.9 you. I’m sure you know this exactly. Community. Good communication will solve everything. 99.9% of the issues can be solved with solid communication and we’re never excellent at that.

Mike: I wish we were, but it it would be so simple if we could just communicate. Well.

Tim: Yeah. So I want all the sales people and production managers out there listening to this to understand that Mike just said, even though there’s a fire or a flood, they’re putting the client off until they have more details. Now, that’s astonishing to me, because it would seem to me like we ought to be rushing in there and fixing this thing.

Tim: And and yet, in full line remodeling, Barry off and we’re jumping into jobs without getting all the details just because we want to or something like that. So everybody pay attention to that. I think that’s a gold nugget right there. Let me let me ask you about that budget, because it strikes me that every carpenter that works for a company wants to have input on that budget.

Tim: They want to say, I think it’ll take 8 hours or 12 hours. And what I think you’re saying is that there’s a computer program that is telling you that you’re going to get paid for hours to replace that trim. How do you get your team to care about that number when it seems like it’s coming from somebody in Boston?

Tim: You know.

Mike: There’s and I’m glad you brought that point up, too. because again, this is where senior adjusters come up. Well, so here’s this software program out of California, actually, or Utah’s, where you get so and it says you can do that job. And a bathroom is a perfect example. The base trim, there’s 12 lineal feet of base trim in a bathroom.

Mike: And it says you can do that base trim in 15 minutes. They don’t realize there’s 23 cuts, right? That bathroom. And so put it in that 12 lineal feet. So again, dealing with a seasoned adjuster is easy. We can put it in the 12 lineal feet. They give us 15 minutes. But we do another line item that says look, there’s 23 cuts in this bathroom.

Mike: We need another man hour or another two man hours to complete that task. And we write that line, okay. And the adjuster, if it’s seasoned adjuster, they’ll say, we understand. Go ahead. We agree with that. If it’s a rookie adjuster, they don’t. They say, well the software says you can do it.

Tim: You.

Mike: Yeah I mean that’s rough. But we look at all those like across the board to say that, you know, how does drywall look. You know because again they they think of it in the software world as you’re doing an apartment complex, you know, repetitive large volume. So we have to look at small spaces and say, no, we can’t do that.

Mike: That’s just not realistic. And again, seasoned adjusters, we both look at the number and and sometimes it’s well it’s a complete wag. And the adjuster might say I think you can do it in 12. And we say 24 and we might meet in the middle. Or I might say, for all I know, it will take 12. I just am completely at a loss.

Mike: So we do highlight those strange items and then we just say, look, this is how we sold the job. I think you can do it in that many man hours. And and I hope you can. But it doesn’t always. Also, you know, you get five different project foreman and they’ll have five different ways of completing the task. It’s you know, it’s just impossible.

Mike: And as an estimator there’s a sixth way. Everybody is to have a form of here’s the end result. You do it the way you want to that you think is most efficient. But there’s still the man hours we have to produce this in. That’s that’s a done deal. You know. So if you take twice the man hours because you think it should have been done differently, that’s just you’re not a good project manager then.

Tim: So I promised everybody we’d get back to the client. And, as we’re starting to wrap up here, like, what do you do to make sure that these clients who are under a lot of stress and have, you know, like you said, they they didn’t choose to have a fire, they weren’t anticipating a remodel. They didn’t get, you know, a inheritance of 100 grand so they could, you know, redo their house.

Tim: How do you keep them from going over the edge, if I can use that term? what what do you do?

Mike: I really do believe that that first bit of advice of. Just take a minute, step back. You know, we’re here, or anybody pick somebody, you know, but to to just let things stop loss, calm down, catch your breath because you just don’t want to be making big decisions in this state of mind. So number one, it’s calming the customer down and and letting them feel at ease.

Mike: And I think part of it, when you have 30 years experience, it’s easy for them to feel at ease that, okay, they’ve done this for. So it’s going to be, you know, better than somebody that might be a rookie at it. So so that’s the first step. And then helping them manage the process because a lot of times they think well you know it’s it’s insurance I want all new everything.

Mike: And we have to bring them down to reality that you might want all new everything, but it’s just not damage from that fire or that flood or or that’s something that it’s truly clean and paint and it’ll be brand spanking new. and it’s not so so it’s really bringing reality into the subject that that I think that helps calm them down and then managing the process of, you know, insurance is going to pay $120,000.

Mike: And if you’re okay with 150, you know, so long as you’re comfortable with that. But if you want to stay at 120, then you have to make the choices that keep you in that budget. You can only choose products that are going to stay within. then if we write a change order that says that’s a $20,000 change order, we need money.

Mike: You know, we need that from outside of insurance. And then the insurance draws are, we usually get some, you know, maybe a third down, say we want a third for cash flow. We want a third at this point. But the insurance always holds that last 20% until the project is done. And then we just show it through.

Mike: You know, that’s just part of the drill. So the the downside of insurance side, the a couple of downsides is cash is where the bank they truly use the contractor as the bank. They will hold the money as long as possible. And it could be 6 to 8 months before you get paid. There’s always some reason, right? that something goes on that we end up being the bank.

Mike: So on the personal side of they’re making their own change orders. We say you need to pony up. This is this is a change. We need the cash. and if you’re, you know, if they’re approving it, then you still have that insurance 20% at the end. The other nightmare is if there’s a bank involved, they take the money and then they send their inspectors.

Mike: You know, the big national banks that this hometown banks are no issue. They’ll just sign over and endorse the check. But the big Wells Fargo, for instance, or any of the big banks, the whatever they are out there, they just have a process. They say that check belongs to us, no questions asked. it goes to them and then they send out their inspectors and, you know, it’s 6 or 8 months after the project is completed before they even start releasing funds.

Mike: That’s come.

Tim: Yeah. So a lot of those little things, like getting that money for the change order, I think is something that the rest of the world has learned, maybe from the insurance restoration people, that that’s the really the way to get it done. so who actually, shepherds the client through this process? Is it the project manager or is there a, the sales person kind of walks them through from beginning to end?

Mike: No. Well, the salesperson is, again, a lot of that upfront stuff before it’s turned over to production. So there’s a lot of that stuff that’s walked through upfront. But once that jacket gets turned over to production, they’re the king. They’re the they’re in charge. They’re you know, they could use the salespeople as tools, but that jacket is in their hands and that’s their responsibility until they hand that jacket back.

Mike: Then then that job jacket comes back into the office and then everything is wrapped up. But as soon as that jacket is turned over to the project manager, he’s he’s he’s done with it or he’s, he’s got the ball.

Steve: Yep. Mike, as we’re wrapping up, if somebody is listening who is in the design build, side of remodeling, you know, how could they explore what what would be some steps if they did want to add to their service offering and some things to consider to explore this? you know, how would they do that.

Mike: If they want to get into this industry? number one is the software. They pretty much have to hop into one of the insurance accepted industry software and I think there’s if somebody is still out there, somebody an exact where so that’s number one. You have to have the software that’s that can speak their language. and number two, the training, there’s probably training out there that teaches you on fire and smoke restoration, water damage restoration.

Mike: There’s plenty of schools out there, that are maybe week long schools, to learn that industry and then getting the word out and talking to agents and adjusters and let them know you’re available to do this work. so that’s probably the starting point. Great.

Tim: This has been fantastic, Mike, thank you very, very much for all of your time. And, just insights into something that many of us don’t know very much about.

Mike: But I appreciate you guys having me on the show. It was it was fun, I appreciate it.

Steve: Thanks so much, Mike. Take care. All right. Well, Tim, I learned a lot today. That was really a fantastic podcast. I’ve always thought of insurance restoration as being a very tough start, because in a way, it’s almost like, a tow truck. Nobody ever wants to see a tow truck, you know, so that you go on to a you mentioned the client during this podcast and just that emotional component upfront is just something that’s very difficult.

Steve: But Mike, you know, he speaks to the years of experience. And you can hear it in the pages of how you know how versed he is in doing a great job.

Tim: Yeah. One of the myths that, that I was busted for me was this idea that you pretty much only get what the insurance company wants to pay you, and it sounded like with good negotiation skills and the ability to really see what needs to be done, you can add some money in for make jobs that are more difficult and so forth like that.

Tim: Although you got to fight for it, you got to make sure that you’re, you know, pushing for your end of the business. Yeah, I really like too, that he went and learned how to be an adjuster. I thought.

Steve: That is that.

Tim: That had to be the best thing he did for that business. You got to learn the perspective from the other side of the fence. And, anytime you can do that, it’s got to be a plus.

Steve: It’s like becoming an inspector. Yeah.

Tim: Yeah, exactly, exactly.

Steve: All right, well, once again, we’d like to thank Mike Carey for joining us. And thank you for listening to another episode of The Tim Faller Show.

Tim: And remember, at the Tim Faller Show, we’re working really hard to eliminate it. Is what it is from your vocabulary.

Steve: This has been another episode of The Tim Faller Show. Want to hire Tim and fast track your growth? Visit remodelers advantage.com/consulting to learn more. And if you’d like more information about roundtables, our world class peer advisory program, please send me an email at Steve at remodelers. advantage.com. And of course, don’t forget to subscribe to the show and comment on iTunes.

Steve: Thanks for listening. We’ll see you next week.