Greg: Welcome to the Tim Faller Show, where production is paramount and we discuss the tools, time and people associated with getting jobs done and making a profit.

Greg: On today’s episode of The Tim Faller Show, we will be talking about construction with an independent designer with the help of special guest Sarah Walker, principal designer and owner of Nuance Interior Design in Seattle, Washington. Alongside Tim Faller, Amy co-hosts Greg Woleck. Here is the Tim Faller show.

Tim: Hey, everyone, Tim Faller here and welcome to another episode of The Tim Faller Show. And I think I’ve been doing this for five years or so, but please send in your ideas. We we love to have guests on that have sent us idea, and that’s the case today. So somebody was listening out there and actually sent me an email and said, Let’s do a podcast.

Tim: So we’ve done several podcasts recently about how companies are getting their pre-construction process completed before jobs start. They’re getting better results both in profitability as well as morale with the BUILD team. And all of these companies have been in house design designed build in house. And so our guest today, when she contacted us, got me kind of thinking, well, maybe some of you out there are thinking, wow, it’s easy for those companies because they have control of the design process, they have in-house designers, and they can make it work.

Tim: But we have all subcontract outside designers so it’s never easy. But if we can control the design, I grant you, it might make it a little bit easier. So a listener from the Seattle area wrote me and volunteered to be on the show representing that outside subcontractor designer point of view. At first I was a little hesitant. I didn’t know quite what we were going to be getting into, and we had a nice conversation previous to doing this recording, and then I kind of realized that some of the things our guest wanted to share are really important with independent designers.

Tim: But even for the companies that are listening in that have in-house designers, some of these tips are absolutely critical. And so I wanted to go ahead and have our guest on, get a fresh perspective and just hear about what’s going on with independent design. So I will admit I’ve been a little bit critical of outside designers and how hard it might be.

Tim: So I’m really looking forward and I think we’re going to get it. Learning some things about how to work more effectively with designers that are independent subcontractors of a company. So Greg, let’s get started.

Greg: You bet. Tim. Sarah Walker is the owner and principal designer of nuanced interior design in Seattle, Washington. She has close to 20 years of experience specializing in luxury, sustainable interior design. She holds degrees in interior design, business and art, as well as a certification in construction management. Her full service design studio is committed to streamlining the process through detailed construction documents, cutting edge software in collaboration with the trades nuances.

Greg: Showroom features 3000 square feet of sustainable cabinetry, finishes, fixtures, window treatments and furniture exclusively available to clients. Sara’s award winning sophisticated interiors have been published locally and nationally in a fun fact. Sarah was born and raised in Dubai and loves to bring a global and holistic point of view to her projects. Welcome, Sarah.

Sarah: Thank you so much for having me. Tim and Greg excited to be here.

Tim: Well, okay, so let’s get started, like we do with all of our guests. Just give us a little bit more information about your company, maybe how many designers you have, how many jobs you handle at one time, maybe even if you want to share it. The the overall volume of the company?

Sarah: Absolutely. So I have a team of seven people. I am the lead designer and really the face of the company with the client interactions and interactions with the builder. So everything runs through me and my support staff is very efficient at, you know, streamlining the processes in house behind the scenes so that I can be as creative and as effective as possible when I’m interacting with clients and builder.

Sarah: So that’s really important to us. We do about 15 to 20 projects a year depending on kind of the size and scope. We typically handle large scale renovations or new construction. So those bigger projects are going to be, you know, maybe 10 to 12, and then we’ll do some kind of smaller kitchen bath renovations to fill in those gaps.

Sarah: And we really like to focus on foundation to furnishings. So getting involved right around permit phase and all the way into the furniture, our accessories, styling phase at the end. And I would say, you know, it’s Seattle. So, you know, this is a little bit skewed, but typically our projects are on homes that are, you know, in the 5 to $15 million range.

Tim: Wow. Yeah. But even for Seattle, that’s a big project. So for for listeners who don’t know, Seattle is a booming market and it’s just incredible what housing costs out there. So very good. All right. So just in a nutshell, Sarah, if a company why would a company want to use an independent designer versus as my prejudice has already been revealed, the in-house designer?

Sarah: Exactly. It it’s a very different animal, really. The I would say the strong points of having an outside interior designer for builders is to manage that ebb and flow with their volume of work. So they might not have enough volume to keep a designer busy. And so then they are always, you know, trying to generate work to also keep the designer busy, as well as trying to keep their construction crews busy.

Sarah: And that can be a daunting task depending on the size. Also, you know, a lot of expertise can come from having an outside interior designer that specializes in things because that’s important to them. In our case, it’s luxury and sustainability that we’ve chosen to specialize in. And so we’ve accumulated a lot of resources and a lot of continued education around those aspects.

Sarah: That maybe doesn’t happen if you’re purely a heads down production designer trying to keep up with the workflow. Just the overhead. I would say with having a design firm, you know, we’re going to market, we’re traveling globally to source unique things, we’re attending design, trade events to understand more about trends and changes in the design community. So and not to mention our software is very specialized and very expensive.

Tim: Yeah. So just like almost any other trade contractor out there in the world, in my in our world, it’s like electricians, plumbers. If you’re going to go find a new trade contractor, say, we know how to interview a plumber, we know how to interview an electrician or maybe a dryWoleck company or something like that. But, you know, I would be at a great loss if I had a company and I was going to go out and try to work with an independent designer.

Tim: So what might be some things that a remodeling company would have? Some questions, I guess that might be really important to ask of an independent designer to see if it’s going to be a good fit and see if they’re going to fit both their design but also fit in with their clients.

Sarah: Absolutely. So I would say that most designers that get into the design field do it because they’re creative, they’re passionate about design. And so that’s a really foundational piece that you’re probably not going to be interviewing for as a contractor. You’re going to understand that they’re bringing that to the table. So really, what is the differentiator between a designer that is, you know, talented versus a designer that is talented and it’s going to work well with a contractor, Right?

Tim: I guess that’s my question.

Sarah: That’s the question. And I think that’s the question that contractors get into when they see a portfolio and they go, Wow, this is fabulous. But what did it take to get there? That’s the behind the scenes things that you don’t see from a portfolio. And so I encourage contractors to ask about the project management, the organization and the communication skills.

Sarah: Really the business side of the design business is what they should be concerned about because that’s what impacts them the most. And it can have the most negative impact because if you have a tile installer in the field setting that tile and you’re not getting a response from the designer in a timely manner or the construction documents aren’t clear or they’re not managing client expectations, that’s when it negatively impacts the contractor.

Sarah: And so I really think of it more of an 8020 split that a lot of designers, I think, go into the field bright eyed and and thinking that they’re going to be spending 80% of their time, you know, finding beautiful tile and fabrics. And if that’s not the case at a certain level of these these massive projects, in my experience, I really spend about 20% of my time putting the beautiful selections together and about 80% of the time handling the the bids and the proposals and putting together the construction documentation.

Sarah: It’s incredibly time consuming to address all of the questions that I’ve run into in the field from contractors and creating a set of document that really illustrate our design intent so that subcontractors at various levels are able to execute those. And that is something that I don’t see very often in the design industry.

Tim: Yeah, and I just want to make a comment real quick comment here that what you’ve just said, Sarah, is absolutely true about what we ought to be asking the plumber as well, because everybody knows that what gets messed up is when they’re unorganized ized or they don’t follow through or they don’t communicate well, almost all of them can put the right pipes together, but it’s the ones that have a good business sense.

Tim: And so I really like what you said because it fits across our spectrum. Totally.

Sarah: Yeah.

Greg: I like that you started with this idea, this foundation to furniture. I think that’s such an awesome philosophy. And so that means you’ve experienced these these book on pain points all along the way. So as it relates to, you know, a designer’s involvement, what are some of the pain points you have seen in remodeling and building.

Sarah: A lot of it comes down to communication. And we have really built an extensive tech stack, basically software that clarifies communication. So when I have a finished schedule, I’m not simply saying, you know, here’s the name of the tile and how I want it to be installed. I have a image of that tile. I have the clear dimensions, I have the finish, I have how I want the edge, transitioning to the next material.

Sarah: I have the grout colors and brands. And so eliminating those questions in the field that really bogged down the builder is going to alleviate pain points on both ends because I don’t want to be constantly answering questions and going out to the job site to, you know, build the project with the builder. And he doesn’t or she doesn’t want me there either.

Sarah: Right? So we we want to create clear documentation to eliminate most of those pain points. I would say the other pain point is budget, right? I think there’s a lot of concern I’m going to hire a designer or encourage my client to hire a designer and it’s going to blow the budget. And what we’ve really done is said, how can we make sure that we are on time and on budget and we’re not bringing out new ideas halfway through the project that really throws a wrench in it for everybody.

Sarah: I would say that our focus is to make as wonderful the client experience as possible, and that means being a really great team player with the contractor.

Greg: So just guessing that you’d want those budget numbers early on as well. Like that’s got to be something that, you know, is that I mean, even for design build firms, I spent a lot of time working with interior designers. It was getting that budget nailed down early on.

Sarah: Exactly. And a good designer will work with that budget and make selections that are in line with that budget. And a really good builder is going to give those allowances to the designer in advance so that the concepts marry up with the budget. The worst thing I think, for the client experience is to show them wonderful, beautiful things that any designer can have access to.

Sarah: Beautiful tile, right? But that doesn’t really create a solution for either the client or the builder. If it’s not on budget.

Tim: Yeah, so just this is a really, really important point for everybody. But do you have those situations where somebody is going to do this magnificent bathroom and there just isn’t enough money to even do it with 4×4 and two by six edges? And what do you do? I just kind of I this is a pain point for a lot of folks.

Tim: What do you do in that situation?

Sarah: It’s hard because the last thing you want to do is disappoint a client. Right. And we all, I think, in this industry really want to we believe that we’re making people’s lives better through our work. And so to have to tell a client, if your budget isn’t realistic, we can’t actually give you what you want. It’s not safe, it’s not right.

Sarah: You know, we’re we can’t stand behind our work. And if it’s, you know, $2 a square foot imported tile, that’s going to crack and, you know, six months, it’s just right. It doesn’t actually do the client any favors bending over backwards to accommodate unrealistic budgets and so we do a lot of educating the client and saying, you know, here’s what our typical ranges are, you know, and not letting the the builder speak to what his labor budgets are.

Sarah: We’re never going to speak on behalf of of a builder and block them into a corner either.

Tim: So do you ever work with the builder like pre contract to kind of say, you know put this amount of money in the allowance for tile for this bathroom and then that back another words help the builder remodeler come up with a budget that you feel like you can work with with the client. Is that ever part of your experience?

Sarah: Yes, we’re usually under contract already by then. If if that’s how it goes and they want us to kind of inform budgets, I would say it’s more of a collaborative thing if we give the client a range and say, Realistically, in your market, with your home value, you’re going to be looking at a renovation at this range. And then the builder and I collaborate and say, you know, they want all the bells and whistles in their cabinetry, They want the lighting and the automation and, you know, this hand done finish, that’s not enough of an allowance for that cabinetry, you know.

Sarah: So we definitely do that.

Tim: That’s fantastic because that I’ve seen when I first got into doing this kind of work, it was always they sold it and then production had to produce it at whatever they sold it for. And there’s been a huge migration toward get production design involved upfront for the dollars and cents, particularly get that accurate. And then when we go to produce it, everybody’s happier.

Tim: So you mentioned the client experience. So how does the independent designer and then therefore maybe the internal in-house designer as well, how do they elevate the client experience? What’s the the way that you can actually, I don’t know, create better feelings and that great experience for the client that maybe they wouldn’t have otherwise?

Sarah: Right. I really think it’s a lot about streamlining. And I have studied over the years where those bottlenecks happen. I would say most builders would agree with me that a lot of those bottlenecks happen in the design phase and eventually clients get frustrated and they get burnt out because, you know, they’re also hearing from the builder, you know, we don’t have that information.

Sarah: Where is it? You know? So there’s this combination of dissatisfaction that happens before the renovation or construction, even happens, and that’s a miserable experience. The last thing we want is for the client to feel overwhelmed, to feel burned out. Decision paralysis. And so we’re really focusing on the front end to set expectations. Here’s our process. Here’s the timeline, here’s how long we expect it will take.

Sarah: Here are the key meetings that we need you to show up for. Mr. and Mrs. Smith, We need both decision makers on board because we’re not going to do this twice. Right? You’re going to be unhappy the more we have to revisit stuff and then we have the budgets from the the builder saying, you know, here’s what I’ve allocated for materials, here’s what I’ve allocated for labor, and separating those out for us so that we’re not thinking that we have way more money than we do.

Sarah: Right. That’s not a good experience and just communicating. We send out weekly updates to the client saying, you know, here’s what we’ve accomplished this week, Here’s what’s still outstanding, here’s what we need from you. And moving that process along. I would say the the thing that really sets us apart as a design studio is that we have that 3000 square foot showroom where we re curated, you know, dozens and dozens of brands with whom we love to partner and we’re showing those to clients instead of having to drive around to, you know, ten, 15, 20 different showrooms.

Sarah: The client hates that. And in Seattle, we don’t have a consolidated design district like many major cities do. It is all over.

Tim: Nothing’s consolidated in Seattle.

Sarah: Nothing. And so I built the showroom I always wished I had that were the most extensive custom cabinetry showroom. We have 15 different tile vendors that are all quality, you know, with beautiful options. You know, the list goes on and on. But think how that changes the client experience. It takes half the amount of time. And if we need to value engineer re select, we’re pivoting in hours instead of weeks.

Tim: So before Greg jumps back in here, I do want to comment that many, many, many times we lose the client in the pre-construction phase in terms of satisfaction and experience and enjoying it. They’ve already contracted. We’re going to build that sucker. But then what happens? They start taking it out on the production crew because they’re already frustrated. So I really, really like what you’ve got going on there.

Greg: So looking at, you know, Sarah’s background, I know everyone can see that, but there’s a it’s sharp. There’s some really good displays going on behind her. So though, Sarah, I know one of your superpowers, one of the tools you like to use is the schedule. And I’m just I’m wondering what brought you to that and the impact it has on working with the contractor.

Sarah: It’s a life changing tool for contractors. I think a lot of them have been trying to do it on their own for so long because they there’s a lot of horror stories out there, partner with designers that maybe don’t have all the business side button down. And so they’re more business oriented, they’re more process and system oriented. And so in order for us to feel like we have a synergistic relationship with those builders, we needed to get on board with those systems and processes.

Sarah: And so what we did was I basically this schedule we have is accumulation of 20 years of listening to builders paint points. You know what our clients are saying they wish that they had and they want a roadmap. They want to know at what phase, what things happen when payments are due, when deliverables are due, when we are collaborating with the contractor again.

Sarah: And so I just to kind of walk you through that process, we do an initial analysis where we’re collaborating with the architect and the client to figure out, you know, what the look and feel of the home will be, what the goals are, right? It’s their home. And that’s the most important thing, is how it looks and feels right.

Sarah: What the budget, what the scope is. We have a questionnaire that addresses functionality and then we move into the conceptual design phase where we’re talking, you know, specific layouts and elevating the key wall, picking select finishes. Materials were battening down, you know, all of the plumbing fixtures, lighting fixtures, appliances and then we give it to the contractor in kind of a preliminary form so that they can make sure that we’re still in alignment with the labor side.

Sarah: Right. Because they’ve already given us the allowances on the front end for materials. But what about that labor component? I can, you know, pick a tile installation pattern that’s three times as much as a a brick lay and I can ruin the budget very quickly. And so we really want to make sure we’re in alignment very early on before we create.

Sarah: That’s a final specification book that we do during the detailed design process where we’re elevating every single wall, we’re drawing every floorplan, we’re labeling every single finish, making sure that every grout color is called out. And then we move into the execution phase where we’re meeting with the builder, the subs, doing trade days, walkthroughs, and then finally the delivery where we’re installing the furnishings and window treatments and making sure that everything’s completed.

Greg: So how rigid is that schedule? And they me based on that answer, how do you keep the client focused in making decisions?

Sarah: It’s a little bit of an art, right? So we give the client a Gantt chart at the beginning that says, you know, during week one we’re going to have you meet with us to go select plumbing and appliances and complete your questionnaire to provide us with a Pinterest board. Some of this is done already by the architect. So, you know, however, that dovetails in, I would say, short answer the steps aren’t particularly flexible.

Sarah: It’s more the timing that becomes flexible. If you know they’re really responsive. We’re able to move through the process quicker if they need more time or if we’re, you know, working with the builder on, you know, some complexities with the job site, it might add more time. But really the goal is, is to not burn the client out.

Sarah: And the longer we stretch that timeline, the more they feel like there’s not progress and they’re just paying a lot of money. They’re seeing the money go out and they’re not seeing that deliverable. Will come back in.

Tim: So one of my fears and again, I kind of mentioned this in the intro, is that I and I have seen this happen is that the designer works for the client but not for the contractor. And I think you’ve already answered this, but I joke about hearing my audience yelling at me, ask this question. So I’m going to I’m going to ask it again and probably get the same answer.

Tim: But that tends to be one of the rubs where, you know, the designer I mean, they’re getting paid by the client typically, and then the contractor sort of the odd person out of that equation. So how do you just make sure that that gap is bridged in that everybody is on the same page from your perspective?

Sarah: Right. I really think it is a perspective thing. As a designer, I gauge a lot of the success of the project on the client experience, how satisfied they are and also the builder satisfaction with working with me, Right to Fault the Builder and the architects give us about 95% of our referrals. If they’re not happy with the process, we’re not going to get repeat business right.

Sarah: Clients might build to one or two homes or renovate, you know, a couple of times. But a builder can send us ten, 15, 20 different projects over the course of a life span. But the client experience back to that aspect is negatively impacted by finger pointing between a designer and a contractor. Right? That I might show up as a hero for throwing the contractor under the bus.

Sarah: But overall that is a negative experience for the client. You know, they now are trying to mediate between the designer and the builder, and that’s a nightmare. I haven’t been successful if that’s the case. So my approach is always to present a united front with the contractor and to come with solutions rather than problems to the client so that they understand we have their best interest.

Sarah: And then that leads to repeat business and referrals.

Greg: So, Sarah, I’m going to I’m going to share with you one of my experiences on a job I had an opportunity I was working was a nice was a nice big house. But the architect would show up and wave his hands and the designer would show up and wave her hands. And then I had to show up and wave the change order.

Greg: Now this is later in the process and it doesn’t sound like this is something that you do. So please don’t think I’m saying that. But yeah, if you knew a interior designer that was in that situation, how would you handle some of these costs conversations, especially later in the game?

Sarah: I find that the change orders can happen more on a project where it’s a renovation, right? You open up a wall, there’s a surprise. You have to pivot, and that has some adjacent costs with it. So what we like to do is, like I said, this solution oriented, what is going to give us the best result? And what are the costs of those different options and really facilitate with the client the long term picture.

Sarah: You know, in in association with the cost of that change order. But ideally we’re making all of the decisions and getting all the client approvals prior to demo or groundbreaking so that that spec book is as final as it possibly can be when it’s on that job site and that way we really avoid those, those change orders because the builder and I have clarity beforehand on every page of that spec book.

Greg: So that’s music to my ears. I love hearing that. So Tim.

Tim: So we’ve had at least one other. We had an electrician on this program years ago now, and as we’re going through, I’m thinking like every listener in the country is going to want this electrician to be working on their job because he was absolutely spectacular. And I’m feeling like everybody is going to want Sarah’s contact information and say, he moved by to my home town, you know, But I want to ask one more question then I’d love to.

Tim: I want you to give us a little bit of contact information in case anybody in the Seattle area wants to get in touch with you. I would certainly encourage them to do that. But in our pre-show communication, you talked a little bit about being very proactive in the communication, particularly during the project. And I want would you just kind of give us an idea about, you know, like what are your what’s your site visit process and and maybe a little bit about when a builder has a question how do you try to make sure they get you get that information quickly?

Sarah: Absolutely. So in our actual deliverables, contractually with the client, we outlined that we will have certain touchpoints with the contractor because we really feel that that is vital to the success of the project. No matter how clear our spec book is, there are going to be questions that come up on the job site, right? And so we build in to our contracts the following kind of site visits.

Sarah: We’re going to do a detailed review of the spec book with the contractor. We’re going to be available via email and phone calls with a 24 to 48 hour turnaround unless, you know, there’s some kind of pre described vacation or something. We don’t take vacations in this industry. We but if that were to happen, that would be really important to note.

Sarah: And then we like to participate. Some builders have like monthly team meetings, you know, where they have a call with the client and say, here’s the progress. And so we’ll we’ll jump on those calls as well. We like to do a Trade Day site, visit electrical walk through a cabinet measure oftentimes because we are providing the cabinets, I’m absolutely going to be on that job site, a tile installation site, visit, countertop template and site visit and a punch list site visit.

Sarah: And none of these visits are to step on the contractor’s toes or to point out flaws. They are purely to facilitate answers to questions that the subs might have.

Tim: Yeah, I think I’m just thinking back on the number of times that I’ve met a granite contractor or a template and they look at me and they go, What’s the edge? What’s the edge detail? And I go like I’m flipping through my paperwork to and it’s like, if I just had the designer there, the answer’s there, you know?

Tim: And so I really like that, that approach. Many, many companies do tile layouts because the challenge of getting it right the way the designer really wants it. So that that’s absolutely fantastic. So Sarah, just kind of give us a little bit about how someone might be able to contact you and and just kind of give them that opportunity.

Sarah: I love that. So reach out to us at Sarah. I say our H at Nuance Interiors dot com is my personal email. Our phone number is 4254594029. Our website and social media Instagram is Arts interiors and we’d love to chat. We love collaborating with builders and really our goal is to streamline that process for them.

Tim: Do you think you’d ever do a remote like if somebody in Washington, D.C. wanted to use your services that you could do that effectively?

Sarah: We have done some remote jobs. We just don’t typically include the site visits, which I think is, you know, a big asset. We have a 12,000 square foot house project in Rancho Santa Fe, California. That’s kind of an equestrian estate that we did remotely. And it worked really well. The project turned out beautifully, but there are some times where I just wish I could drive there and just be there for those kind of walk through.

Sarah: So it is a little bit tricky with his hands on as we really like to be, But we have done some remote projects without the the site visits.

Tim: Well, it sounds like maybe you could get the owner of the home to send his pilot, pick you up and fly down for the day and then fly back and then you could make your site visits.

Sarah: 100%. Yeah. I love your solution oriented mindset. Perfect.

Tim: I’m a problem solver. That’s what I am. So, Sarah, this has been absolutely enjoyable, fun for me. My all my preconceived ideas about independent designers have been shattered, and I love the possibility that it works out well for a lot of folks. So thanks so much for being with us.

Sarah: Thank you for having me much. Appreciate it.

Greg: So, Tim, what have we learned today besides the fact that you’re you’re all in on independent designers now?

Tim: You know, I joke about it, but I. I really love what she’s doing. And again, I’m joking about the fact that the listeners are all out there, like, why can’t there be somebody like this in my town, you know, and and maybe maybe contractors have to help their independent designers behave in the way that they want them to, that they get some of these things going, don’t just go I don’t like this person because they don’t follow up.

Tim: Maybe we need to help them follow up. So I think Sarah has set a great standard for how it can really work with those independent designers. I mean, things like the schedule, you know, this was a when we talked before the show a couple of weeks ago, this was a big deal to me because I’m hearing about this happen across the board in so many different companies and having a schedule for the design, getting the client keyed in to making decisions in a timely manner.

Tim: It just seems like such a key factor in a in a well-run job. And I love the fact that she’s the one pushing, that it’s not the builder pushing it, but it’s she’s the one pushing that, helping the builder give that client a really great experience.

Greg: Yeah. This this phrase is the foundation of furniture. You know. You know, Tim, I worked in probably similar market to where Sarah is. And so the things like, you know, supply locations on the floor were dependent on furniture plan, not just where the contractor could get it and things like how tile laid out on on, you know, plumbing fixtures and things like that.

Greg: And it really sounds like, you know, Sarah thought about these things and I think that’s great. I really think that’s a wonderful thing. And again, I’m going to foundation of Furniture. I might get that tattooed. So I like that.

Tim: Yeah, I think it’s I think it’s really incredible. You know, she talked about that 20% on, the design, the real design stuff. Of course, she’s got some assistance that are helping with that. But that 80% on the communication, the organization, the, you know, getting making sure that people know what’s going on. I’ve got to believe that that 80% involves those site visits that, you know, that that the designer is there to make sure things are happening in the way that that she wants it to.

Tim: And maybe not with that tone, but realizing the vision that she’s painted for the client as well as for the contractor. And I brought it up. And again, the whole idea of gathering information from design, pre contract and setting active or accurate allowances, it’s a challenge even with in-house designers, but using paying exterior, you know, you’re independent designers for the time that it takes to say, we believe this client’s going to need a $40,000 tile allowance and not 10,000, you know, and because later on they’re going to want 40 and number one, the builder is probably going to lose markup on that extra 30.

Tim: And number two, they’re not going to be happy. They believe that whatever allowance you put in that contract, they get what they want for that allowance. And it’s it’s just creates a bad taste in everybody’s mouth. So I love that proactive engagement and not and I mean, we could go on for another 10 minutes probably. But I love the 24 to 48 hour turnaround.

Tim: Now I’m fussing at project managers. Don’t wait for that short time. You if you have a designer involved, give them a week’s notice when you need something because they have a lot of other stuff going on. But she’s making a commitment 24 to 48 hours, which is fantastic and I think that’ll really that really resonates with the builders and remodelers that we that we work with.

Greg: Absolutely. Well once again, we’d like to thank Sarah Walker of Nuance Interior Design in Seattle, Washington for joining us. And thank you for listening to another episode of The Tim Flower Show.

Tim: And remember, everybody at the Tim Faller Show, we’re working hard to eliminate. It is what it is from your vocabulary.

Greg: This has been another episode of The Tim Faller Show. Would you like to hire Tim or myself to help fast track your growth? Please send me an email. Greg After Mahler’s Advantage account for more information about our production manager and design manager roundtables to get more information about consulting for your team or if you’ve ideas for the podcast, please subscribe to the show comment on iTunes, Spotify, or wherever you listen to podcasts.

Greg: Thank you so much for listening.