Mark: Today on Power Tips Unscripted, we talked to award winning NCBA Certified Master Kitchen and bath designer Jan Neiges. Jan is adamant that you should be selling to design, not designing to sell. And she’s here to share how you can improve your closing ratio. Gain more control of the sales cycle and earn a design fee within two hours. We’ll hear all the details in just a minute.

Victoria: Hi, I’m Victoria Downing and welcome to Power Tips Unscripted where we talk about tips, tactics and techniques to help you build a strong, profitable remodeling company. And I’m here with my co-host, Mark Harari.

Mark: Well. Hello there.

Victoria: Hi, there. How are you?

Mark: As always. Wonderful.

Victoria: Well, good. You know, it’s. We just were talking to another podcast. guest who said that he never answers with anything but a positive when I ask that question, how are you always upbeat? And I’m awesome and more awesome as the day goes on.

Mark: Well, everybody always thinks of me as such. The optimist, right?

Jan: Yeah.

Victoria: I don’t know, we’ll leave that one hanging a little bit. So I’m excited about today’s episode. Of course, I’m excited about all our episodes, but especially about today’s episode, because we get to talk about selling, which talk about closing. We’ll get to talk about design, all the fun stuff that goes into that. We’re running a remodeling.

Mark: And we get to talk to one of the the faves of our last Remodeler summit. That’s right. She was she was a big head at summit.

Victoria: So we expect nothing less of her here today, do we?

Mark: No, no.

Victoria: All right. So we kick it off.

Mark: Kick away.

Victoria: Jan Ngige is an NCBa certified master kitchen and bath designer with 41 years of sales experience. She’s going to be sharing some simple gestures, comments and body language that can improve your first impressions and help you make sales. Jan and I met at NCBa at the Cape is several years ago and I saw her present and she was awesome.

Victoria: So welcome to Power Tips Unscripted. Jan.

Jan: Well, thank you for having me.

Victoria: You bet. You know, again, you were such a hit at the summit. It was. I loved reading those reviews. So, Jan, why is making a first impression important these days? And we’re seeing fewer people in person.

Jan: Because you have to stand out. And I have found that people are forgetting about the importance of making a first impression. And it’s so easy to improve. And that’s what I really want to delve into today.

Victoria: All right. Great. So what are some of the mistakes that people are making right now?

Jan: I think for one, they’re not dressing for success. If you’re trying to sell a project that is in the thousands of dollars, 25,000, 300,000, a million and a half, you need to dress like you have that money in the bank. We are in the fashion business, and I really recommend that you buy that one power outfit, because it’s the first meeting, whether it’s zoom or it’s in person, the first meeting, wear that outfit and it just totally changes the playing field.

Jan: You are looked at as being someone who respects people because you’re respecting the way you present yourself.

Victoria: Now, do you think that well, first of all, this is for men and women, I’m assuming. Absolutely. So can you give us an example of what that one power outfit is for each?

Jan: Okay. So we all understand we’re in a somewhat casual business based on the fact that we’re in the field. So for men in particular, you don’t necessarily need to wear that suit, but you need to just look clean and smart. So if by chance you tend to make appointments after you’ve been in the field all day, make sure you have a pair of clean slacks that are not wrinkled, clean shoes that are polished, a matching belt and a shirt tucked in, and a nice jacket or a winter coat.

Jan: Okay, hang it in your trunk. There were so many places around where we live that we can sneak into, gas station or whatever and change to that first meeting. Women. I understand leggings are super comfortable. Everybody’s wearing them. But I want to tell you something. Nobody wants to see your ass. So it’s not about showing off your body parts.

Jan: Right. So wear something a little bit more sophisticated. There are a lot of nice, tailored tunics. Be creative. If you’re not creative. Ask your friend or hire someone to come over to your house and reimagine your wardrobe. Because I can assure you, you have something in there that is more respectable. And also, shoes. Comfortable shoes. These six inch heels and three inch heels.

Jan: You know, I really think they’re impractical because very pointy heels. When you go into someone’s home who happens to have wood flooring, you are marring that floor right now.

Victoria: What do you say to people who who push back and say, hey, I’m a I’m, I’m came up through the field. I’m a construction person. I should reflect what it is I do for a living.

Jan: Well, if the business works for you and you don’t need any more business, and you’re not running into problems where you’re saying, why can’t I fill my pipeline? And why am I losing a high percentage of of these leads? then you can wear whatever you want to wear.

Victoria: All right. Great. So you talked about being in the fashion industry. How do you mean?

Jan: We are in the fashion industry because we everything someone wants in their house is a fashionable item. Whether it’s the new shingles on your roof for an interesting front door or the different kinds of colors around frames for windows, cabinet finishes, finishes on hardware. It’s all fashion. And I think if people were to take that thought in a simplistic way, they would then go, yeah, I am in the fashion business.

Jan: I need to look trendy. I need to look like I get it because I want them to buy for me.

Victoria: So you talk to me the whole we want to focus on first impression. So obviously as we discussed attire, getting our jet clean car and that sort of thing to if you’re able to meet in person, what are some other things people need to do to develop that strong first impression?

Jan: I think first of all, it’s extremely important you show up on time and if you’re running late, you need to make that phone call. If you are someone who is always late, I really urge that you improve upon that bad habit. When you enter the front door, wear booties or ask if you need to take your shoes off.

Jan: It again shows respect. It shows that you respect their space. Most of us get greeted with that pet that comes running to the front door. Ask if it’s okay that you can put your hand out for the pet to smell your hand, because the pet has to approve you as well.

Victoria: Right.

Jan: When you’re in the home and you’re exploring things with them during that first meeting, and you feel compelled that you need to open a door or open a cupboard for some reason, checking on the plumbing, etc.. Ask for permission. Is it okay that I open this door. Is it okay that I open the door again? It’s not so much that we’re afraid something’s going to fall out.

Jan: It’s again a simple gesture where you, where you have respect for their space.

Victoria: Hey folks if you’ve been listening to this podcast for a while, you’ve likely heard me refer to our Roundtable’s care Group program. We have a bunch of our members on the podcast in the past, and I always try to give.

Jan: Them a shout out.

Victoria: Now, if you’re not familiar with roundtables, it is the industry’s largest peer group program, and we’ve been hosting them and the peer groups for over 30 years. We bring together groups of 10 to 12 business owners from non competing markets to share strategies, to share experiences, to help one another build action plans to drive the results of each of these companies forward in a way that I’ve never seen before.

Victoria: We know that you can be successful on your own, but by working with roundtables and a group of your motivated peers, you can cut your progress time in half. There’s just nothing like it. Why be alone? Why figure this stuff out all by yourself when you can figure it out? With a group of people who know exactly how your business works, what your challenges are, and will share how they overcame each of these.

Victoria: We’d love to have you join us. If you want to learn more about this. Visit our website at remodelers. advantage.com or talk to Steve Wheeler at Steve at Remodelers advantage.com and he can give you more information about the program. Seats are limited because they have to be non competing market. So call today and get to be part of this incredible community of generous, smart, savvy, motivated remodeling company owners.

Victoria: So you know you’re a designer right? Why do you focus so much on selling versus just designing something spectacular and having it do all the talking?

Jan: Well, first of all, I’m going to say something that might surprise you. And someone had said this years ago is the most successful designers are not great designers, really great marketers. They know how to sell themselves. And it’s because they have a process. And the process makes sense to the person on the other side of the table. What is it that we’re really doing in this industry?

Jan: We’re really solving problems through design. So the reason why I focus on selling to design is because you have to sell yourself before you then can deliver the solutions to solve the problem.

Victoria: Okay, so why do people always struggle with the concept of selling?

Jan: For my years of consulting with my colleagues one on one, I find that they have this particular negative vision of a sales person, the used car salesman or something, and they feel it’s beneath them to say, I’m a sales person. I mean, if you were at a cocktail party and someone says, hey, so what do you do? Oh, I’m a designer.

Jan: It sounds so much better than if you were to say, well, I solve problems through design.

Victoria: So what are some other tips on that first impression that you feel are must dos.

Jan: I think first impressions are regardless of what the look of the house is you need to be positive. Wow. There’s a lot of possibilities here with your house as an example. Also bring with you a folder to promote you. So many of my colleagues when I bring this up are like, oh yeah, you know, I used to do that, but I don’t do it anymore.

Jan: And when you have a sales process, you can never deviate from the process. You always have to do it all the time. Same way all the time. So as an example, what would be in a folder? Well, first of all, you can put an image of your business card on the front of the folder inside the folder.

Jan: And this is what I do inside the folder on one side. I have information about me, including my certifications or my membership certificate of an organization I’m involved with. Even if things are not applicable to my business. It can show you. You can show them how diverse you are. I also have included a list of testimony of previous clients.

Jan: Why wait for them to ask? It’s already in there. I’m proud. I have nothing to hide. Then on the other side. Because I read a lot of trade magazines, of which I’m sure everyone in this industry does. We run across a lot of interesting articles. The ones that I specifically like, or the articles that are surveys from the remodelers.

Jan: And that’s of value because so many times your clients say, well, what does everybody else do? So it’s in the folder. And also I have in the folder, if I run into some really interesting products, like just recently from cannabis this past year, Rhone New Town has a new bass light vent that has it’s called Surface Shield, and it’s this particular light that’s anti-bacterial.

Jan: So I have that now included. But having a leave behind is as important as what you do with it when you are in that client space. So when I do my complimentary visit, which is my first visit, I measure and while I’m measuring before I measure, I make reference to that. I have a leave behind for the client.

Jan: I sit down, I open it up and I explain what’s in it. I explain why I have all those relevant, relevant pieces of information in there, and I say so when I work with my clients, I want to make sure that they’re educated every step of the way. And here, Mrs. Smith, is a lot of articles that I think might be of interest to you.

Jan: Then I walk away and I start measuring. So that also helps them stay focused on the folder. Well, I can measure and not miss a number because they’re asking me questions.

Mark: Jane, do you think that the remodelers or design build firms out there that have two or 3 or 4 designers on staff, should should they also do that, have a folder that’s about that one particular designer with information about him or her. And even though it’s the companies employee, so to speak.

Jan: Well, I guess it depends on when that designer gets involved in the project. Who within that design firm is really selling the job? If the person who’s selling the job, selling the company makes reference to our team, then yeah, they should have information about the team in that folder during the first meeting. I think if you have separate folders for each designer, it could get a little bit, I don’t know what the word is I’m looking at, but you then have to monitor to make sure that that designer who went to that job had the updated information in the folder.

Jan: It just becomes more cumbersome to manage.

Victoria: So what are some other things. Okay. So we talked about being on time. We talked about appearance. We talked about leave behind peace. We talked about opening cupboards and things like that and wearing booties and asking permissions throughout everything else that are big, big red flags or big things you must do.

Jan: Yes. So one and it’s very simple. Be a little original. So how about create note cards and don’t make hallmark which you have your phone go out and take pictures. You can take pictures of whatever it is you want. I have several pictures that I use. One is, kitchen and deconstruction mode. Another one is a bathroom and deconstruction mode.

Jan: And I create blank notecards. And if someone sends me a design fee and says, you know, they want to hire me to do their kitchen remodel, I send a picture of that kitchen and deconstruction mode and say, look forward to the, you know, working together. This will be fun. Exclamation mark. And then they look at that picture and they probably go different than what they remember.

Jan: And what’s important is in this note card, I have information on the back with my telephone number and website and card designed and photograph by Jan. So it also says I’m creative and I hand wide the envelope.

Victoria: why do you do that?

Jan: Because when you go and get your mail, Victoria, and you get a handwritten envelope, which would you open?

Victoria: Definitely the first things I open.

Jan: That’s right. Now, this time of the year might be a little different because of the holiday cards, but still handwrite. And it’s so simple and and I do not accept the excuse. I don’t have time. Takes five minutes, not even two minutes. Whatever.

Victoria: So that could be perceived by some as being old school. What do you think?

Jan: I don’t think it’s old school. There have been times. And let me step back. My business card has a photograph of me on the card. So usually I’m sitting an appointment for the first time with someone within a week or two week period. Soon as I get off the phone and I know the data, I’m meeting them. I send this note with my card in the mail, and usually first time note card might be a pretty picture.

Jan: I mean, one year I went to Napa Valley, so of course I took pictures of the vineyards and I use that as a as a photograph. So, so many times when I get to that house that no card is on the refrigerator. And because I have a photograph of me on the business card, they know who’s coming to the front door.

Victoria: All right. And that’s really important. That makes them feel a lot more comfortable.

Jan: And again and it’s so simple. Right.

Mark: So know we talked about before the show you were, you were mentioning that you could spurn a design fee within two hours. What specifically what what is it about what you’re doing is, is that you can do that in two hours and get a design fee.

Jan: Good question. I sell myself when people when you’re trying to solve a problem, you have to uncover the problem. And I use this little story in the beginning when I talk to people initially and I’ll briefly talk about it, here is I say to clients on the phone before I meet them, and again when I meet them, because I understand people don’t remember 100% of what you say.

Jan: So repeating is always important. I say, you know, there are three ways to start a remodel. Two of the wrong ways. One’s the right way. One wrong way is you call in a contractor and say, hey, I’m thinking of remodeling, yada yada yada yada. And if you kind of feel good with the person when they walked in the door and they rattled off an estimate of which you had in your mind that I think that’ll work, then you go, hey, great, let’s move forward.

Jan: And now this person gives you a contract with all these allowances, and now you second guessing what’s in the allowances. That is not the way to start a remodel. Remodel is a very stressful event. And you now want to start a relationship with someone by second guessing the allowance is second. Wrong way of starting a remodel is you nudge your partner and say, hey, let’s go check out Parade of Homes.

Jan: Let’s go look at the showroom. Months go by, years go by, and every time you go to these different places, you’ll you might have the same question, which we’ll get different answers. And then you just shut down and then you never move forward with your remodel. Third way to start the remodel, which is the right way, is to whether you work with me or you work with someone else, is to focus, work with someone who’s going to focus on the configuration of the space.

Jan: Because 99% of the time as to why someone’s remodeling and this is a qualifying element for me. 99% of the time someone’s remodeling because there’s a problem in the space, it’s too small, it’s too big. a work area, whatever it is, that’s the problem you need to solve. And so when I do my complimentary visit, I’m talking about that I’m not solving their problem that day, but I’m showing them examples of how I’ve presented my design concepts to previous projects.

Jan: So. And that’s how it works. Now when I qualify a client, there have been times where someone has said, I love my space. I just want everything new. I’m like, oh, okay, then we don’t need to do design concepts. We’ll just go to the next step, which is another process called day with a designer.

Mark: Okay. Very cool. Again. Very cool. So this is one of my favorite segments because I get to really peer inside the head of our guests. It’s time for the lightning round. Are you ready?

Jan: And now here’s the remodelers advantage. Lightning round. It’s a.

Mark: Okay, here we go. Let’s put 60s on the clock. What is your favorite business book and why?

Jan: The author is Daniel H. Pink to sell is human because it really just says that we’re all salespeople and it’s very motivational.

Mark: If you are in a kitchen and bath designer, what do you think you’d be doing?

Jan: I would own an art gallery.

Mark: What are you not very good at?

Jan: Care? Drawing. That’s why I hire it out.

Mark: Your room, your desk or your car? Which would you clean first?

Jan: My room first.

Mark: Name something you refuse to share?

Jan: I refuse to share. Oh, that’s a tricky one. You want to skip that and get back to me? Okay, I have 60s.

Mark: All right, well, we’ll come back to that one. What’s your face?

Jan: Got it. I’ve got it. Okay.

Mark: Got it.

Jan: I have stitches, I have a scar on my buttocks. Okay, let’s. Wow.

Victoria: This has been great. We really appreciate it. I appreciate you taking the time to come in and talk to us about the stuff. You know, just getting people to think about things that are simple, like you said. But the difference they can make is profound. Now, two things. If they want to learn more about you and about what you do, where would people go to find that?

Jan: if they want, if they’re interested in me on a professional level, in consulting, in in selling, I would recommend that they email me, which is my name Jan at Jan nes.com, or they can call me on my cell which is (719) 371-4498.

Victoria: Thank you. Now before we let you go, I want you to share your five words of wisdom with our listening audience and why they resonate with you.

Jan: Face to face, their space.

Victoria: Face to face, their space. Okay. And that resonates with you because.

Jan: It resonates with me. Because that is a key in improving your sales, is you want to make sure, get in, get into the space of your clients, get to their home as soon as you can, strike while the iron is hot. Hot.

Victoria: Okay. All right. Great. Well, Jen, Jen, thank you so much to, for for you spending the time with us and talking about selling and closing and first impressions. We appreciate it.

Jan: You are welcome. Happy holidays.

Victoria: Thanks. Same to you.

Jan: Okay. Bye bye.

Victoria: Bye. You know, Jen really touched on some, you know, back to basics things that I think people especially in this day and age, with all of the electronics and virtual and digital and all that, just forget.

Mark: Yeah, it’s just foundational. Most, you know, are kind of like some forehead slap moments. Face palms.

Victoria: Yeah.

Mark: Insert your meme here.

Victoria: Yeah. You know, and I was I was sort of surprised at her comment about appearance and dressing up, but it again it makes.

Mark: Yeah of course. Yeah it makes total sense. But you know to put you just I guess, you know, some people just get complacent, you know, especially if you’ve been doing it for years on end. And it’s just like, yeah, I’m just going to run out there. I’m right. I’m a casual person. And but you know, first time there ever seeing you, a first time there ever meeting you face to face.

Mark: It’s the first impressions, right?

Victoria: Very much so. You know, you think about some of the other types of professionals that you deal with and how you’d feel about them if they were dressed super casually. And that that’s the same for somebody on a massive remodeling. Yeah.

Mark: I don’t I don’t remember if she mentioned it during the show or in our pre-show conversation, but I’m just going to reiterate it just to make sure she was pretty much it was about the first visit, the first impression. Yes. You know, second, third time you’re coming by the place, you can be casual. Yes. You’ve already kind of built a relationship.

Mark: You know each other right now. You can be cash, but not that first time.

Victoria: Right. You know. Right. Yeah. So good stuff.

Mark: I was so tempted because I mean, talk about a cliffhanger, how she got that scar. So. Yeah, I mean, that’s probably a whole show in itself. Yeah.

Victoria: So okay, so that back when I was going to the National Speakers Association conferences, there was a speaker, a southern speaker, he was really funny and he was missing one arm. So he was telling the story about how he would say to somebody, they take and I ask you a question, you said, yes, you can ask me one question.

Victoria: And they say, how did you lose your arm? And he said, it was bit off.

Mark: That was fantastic.

Victoria: So so that’s similar, right?

Mark: Right. Oh yes. Good stuff. Well we want to thank Jan for sharing these great insights with us. And of course, we want to thank you, our loyal listeners, for joining us week in and week out. I am Mark Harari and.

Victoria: I’m Victoria Downing. See you next week.