Mark: Today on PowerTips unscripted. We talked to Dee Ann Turner, CEO of Dee Ann Turner and Associates. Do you want to win the hearts of customers? If so, then Dee Ann says you need to bet on talent. What does that mean? Well, some organizations bet on strategy, some bet on marketing, technology, location. But the end bets on talent because she believes talent is the great differentiator and the greatest competitive advantage.

Mark: We’ll hear what she has to say about it in just a minute.

Victoria: Hi, I’m Victoria Downing and welcome to PowerTips Unscripted, where we talk about tips, tactics and techniques to help you build a strong, profitable remodeling company. And I’m here with my co-host, Mark Harari. Hey. Hey. How you doing? It’s almost spring, Mark.

Mark: It’s I think it might be spring.

Victoria: I don’t know. The weather’s not quite agreeing with that statement quite yet.

Mark: Well, I don’t know. Yeah, I think it is some places.

Victoria: Yes, I think so. So I’m very excited about our topic today. How about you?

Mark: Yeah, it’s going to be great. I mean, I can’t wait. I’m glad we were able to get it on because I didn’t want to wait until Summit to get it. No kidding. Because she’s our keynote speaker, right?

Victoria: Yes. That’s her best credential yet.

Mark: Yeah. Yeah. And she has a nice list of credentials.

Victoria: Yes. Really? So, shall we jump in?

Mark: Yeah, please jump.

Victoria: Dee Ann is a three times bestselling author and international speaker. She gained her leadership experience through a 33 year career leading talent and sustainability at Chick-Fil-A. And we all know what a great reputation that company has today, as Mark said. Diane leads her own organization, Diane Turner and Associates, speaking 50 times a year, writing books and consulting. Welcome, Dan.

Victoria: We’re delighted to have you.

Dee Ann: thank you so much, Victoria. It’s my pleasure to be with you and Mark today.

Victoria: How did you get started in your career with Chick fil A?

Dee Ann: Well, that’s quite a story. I was barely out of college. I was working in an organization with the toxic culture. My husband suggested it was time for me to make a change. It was actually his idea. I guess I was bringing a little bit of that home. And so I started looking for jobs. And he had spent some time with people from Chick-Fil-A and he was actually the one that suggested it.

Dee Ann: So I applied for a job in advertising that was my field at the time. And he it was a couple of weeks later, I got a no thank you letter. And I said, okay, that’s that I did that. He said, Now why don’t you try again? So I did. And two weeks after that I got another version of the same no thank you letter.

Dee Ann: But then I was intrigued. I was like, okay, I was all of 21 years old. I had, you know, world of experience, right? Why are these people turning me down? So I started really learning about them and learning about this tremendous culture. And it was really before I even knew what corporate culture was, I knew that I was in a place that I didn’t like, and I knew this place sounded like a great place, but I’m not even sure I understood what the word culture really meant at that time.

Dee Ann: But anyway, I continued to pursue it. Long story short, my husband worked down the street. He was in his office one day and a lady came in and she had a flat tire and she asked if she could use the phone because remember, this is 1985, so there are no cell phones. Can I use the phone to call my husband?

Dee Ann: He said, You don’t need to do that. I’ll change the time for you. So he changed the tire, and after that, she gave him a coupon for a free Chick-Fil-A sandwich and he said, you work at Chick-Fil-A? And she said, Well, I did, but I have resigned. My husband is being relocated. He said, What department do you work in?

Dee Ann: And she said, Advertising. Then he said, And he has hired her out of his office. He called me. He said, I have a position in advertising. I called them and said, I understand you have a position advertising, and I’d like to interview. So I’ll often say my husband changed my life when he changed attire.

Victoria: That’s great. It’s a good story.

Dee Ann: And that’s how I got in for interviews of the next six months. And at the end of that, I wasn’t offered a position in advertising. I was offered a position in human resources thinking that I would eventually go back to advertising. But I was in the right place at the right time and found my true calling was helping other people find their calling and that’s great, just that I loved it.

Victoria: So tell me a little bit about what it means to bet on talent.

Dee Ann: So as I as you said in the are as Mark said in the introduction, you know, some organizations may choose to bet on strategy or they bet on technology or marketing or locations. But I think talent is the great differentiator. After all, they’re the ones who execute all the rest. So when I talk about betting on talent, it’s really a formula.

Dee Ann: And the first part of that formula is creating a remarkable culture within your organization with a meaningful purpose, a challenging mission and core values that are demonstrated by leadership and everyone in the organization. On top of that, you build, you add extraordinary talent and talent that selected based on the criteria of a character that matches the organization competency, that matches the role and chemistry that matches the team.

Dee Ann: And then you take that and you teach your talent these principles that to provide amazing customer experiences. And when you put all that together and you do it again and again and again, you have an organization that’s known for its legendary customer service. Places like the Ritz-Carlton or Chick-Fil-A or Nordstrom’s or Zappos. And that’s that’s the way I approach it with my clients, is to build all those pieces in.

Dee Ann: And of course, time is the other element. You have to do it over and over and over again and create consistency.

Victoria: So where if people wanted to look at this and replicate sort of the process that you built or you helped build, where do people start with how what’s the most important piece of all of that? That’s a that was a lot.

Dee Ann: Yeah. So I was I did get to that pretty quickly. The first place to start is always with why that Simon Sinek wrote the book Start with Why and finding out what your purpose is. Why does your organization even exist? Because that’s going to drive everything else. You’re going to come back to that Why again and again. You’re going to come back when times get tough, when there’s a pandemic, when there’s inflation, when there’s those things that impact your business.

Dee Ann: So if I’m a business owner or if I’m if I’m one of your clients, the people that that you’re serving, if I’m one of those people, then I’m thinking, okay, why am I in this business at all? This is hard. It’s hard right now. So I want to be able to go back to that to start with that culture, that foundation, because you’re not going to attract extraordinary talent to an organization that doesn’t have a strong culture and and and keep them.

Dee Ann: And you’re not going to be able to teach that talent. Amazing customer service principles if you if you don’t have that foundation laid. So that’s really the place to start.

Victoria: How do you relate that that extraordinary talent with money in that mean you have to pay big bucks for the big brains?

Dee Ann: Well, I think I mean, don’t underestimate that, especially today, because it’s a you know, for it’s hard to find talent and talent to name their price. So don’t underestimate the importance of that. But that’s not the top thing that today’s talents we’re looking for. They’re looking for three things. One, we’ve talked about a little bit already, a remarkable culture.

Dee Ann: And I’m not just talking about, you know, the behaviors that come with that, whether it’s the great holiday parties or the, you know, the team outings or those things. It’s really the it’s really what they want next, which is they want to be part of something bigger than themselves, which comes back to that purpose. So when they talk about culture, they’re talking about something that has depth to it where people are, you know, they understand their why they’re working towards a big goal.

Dee Ann: That’s their challenging mission as an organization. And they’re in a place that they see the company values, the organizational values being lived out day by day. So one, they’re looking for the remarkable culture. Two, they’re looking to be about something bigger than themselves, not just a company that wants to make money. By the way, what’s different than when I start out now?

Dee Ann: We might been interested in where a company’s money goes and what they give to, but this generation wants to be a part of they want hands on. They want the opportunity to go out and serve the organizations that they that their company supported. And then lastly, they want opportunities to learn and develop and grow and learn new skills and increase their market value as they work for you.

Dee Ann: And if you’re those three things actually are coming ahead of compensation, not to disregard it and not to say it’s not important, but those are three more important things that this generation’s looking for in a career.

Mark: Diane, how much of this borrowing from from another discipline with nature versus nurture, I mean, how much of this is something that the talent is? You have to find the right talent before you hire them versus you can nurture them into the role.

Dee Ann: You know, over my years of experience, I saw both things happen. Now, to be honest, as I was selecting talent, I was looking for people who were already there. His character, as I ran through really quickly, their character really matched the organization that they had a personal purpose, mission and values that aligned with the organization. And I was looking for the competency that matched that role and future roles and and chemistry to fit in within the team.

Dee Ann: And so I truly was looking for that. But at the same time, I also witnessed people who maybe didn’t have all of those elements perfectly aligned and I watched them grow in the right environment. What you have to be sure of is that you have somebody that’s coming into a culture that’s willing to grow into the culture and doesn’t think they’re coming in to change the culture, because I think that’s where you kind of get when people come in and they think, well, you know, the culture will adapt.

Dee Ann: To me, that’s where the misalignment causes them to be disappointed and causes the organization to be disappointed. So but I did see it work both ways. I saw I mean, I sought to have the natural match up, but then I saw people nurture and grow in an environment that was there to help them grow in ways that I would have never expected.

Dee Ann: So I think both can occur.

Victoria: So as a company, if they really set their sights on being one of the top customer service companies to be in the the Ritz-Carlton, the Chick fil A’s of the remodeling world, what do you think is the single greatest influence on that customer service?

Dee Ann: The single greatest influence in any situation. And I think about who he’s working with. The remodeler, it’s really simply about what I say is what can make the difference between one amazing customer experience and a poor customer experience is simply an employee. One employee who cares? And if we had more time, I tell stories and I look forward to telling some of those stories at the summit when I’m with you all to illustrate what I’m saying.

Dee Ann: But that’s really the difference. So if I’m a remodeler and I have employees that care about the customer, then that’s going to drive behavior very, very differently. And I think that’s the I think that’s the key thing is like you have to find people that really care about that, especially in such a difficult business where people are hard to please, I’m sure.

Dee Ann: But to find that employee who just cares about the customer, that’ll make all the difference.

Victoria: Whether it goes to get together, have a few laughs.

Mark: Join us September 21st and 22nd for the annual Remodelers Summit at Gaylord National Resort and Convention Center just outside D.C. This year’s theme, Homecoming The Art of Building a Remarkable Culture because Culture eats strategy for breakfast, featuring two time bestselling author Dan Turner, Joe Carcillo, The Mind Shark and Hannah Prior, The Secret Weapon for Impossible Change plus 40 visionary speakers, 36 high octane workshops for education track, and of course, our legendary welcome party.

Mark: Are you ready for Homecoming Visit remodeler Summit dot com to learn more.

Victoria: So how do you evaluate the talent that you select? I mean this is so difficult for so many people. It’s one of the more challenging parts of running a small business. How do you do? How do you know?

Dee Ann: Yeah. So let me get tactical a little bit to help people because I’ve been kind of strategically talking about, you know, what what am I talking about when I talk about selecting for character competence in chemistry? How do I do that? The process is really important. And admittedly, from the time I started selecting talent to today, that process has to shrink because you don’t have that much time, you’re going to lose people, right?

Dee Ann: But I think some of the practices you still want to employ, you just want to do it faster. And one of the most important things is knowing how to actually interview people. And you have to start by knowing what you’re looking for. So you want to well-crafted profile of the qualities that you’re really looking for, the experiences that are important, the skills you want these people to have.

Dee Ann: Because if you don’t know what you’re looking for, you’re not going to find it. And then you want to craft your interview questions where you’re targeting those skills abilities match with your company values, and you want to ask what I call behavioral interview questions. Some people may be familiar with this, this concept. Some may have no idea. But behavioral interviewing questions are based on this premise.

Dee Ann: We know that past performance is the best predictor of future performance. So through those behavioral interviewing questions, you want to learn about the candidate’s past performance. So you know what some interviewers do. They pick up a resume and they start going down and reading the résumé back to the candidate. And the candidate will sit there, not behavioral interviews.

Dee Ann: When you take something. And let’s talk about somebody who might be in the remodeling business. Tell me about the most difficult project you ever worked on. And then I want to go three questions deep. They’re going to tell me they’re going to describe that to me and how did you work through that? They’re going to describe that. What kind of feedback did you get from the client?

Dee Ann: They’re going to describe that. What type of feedback did your shirt and your supervisor give you? What would you do differently next time so that you wouldn’t have you know, you wouldn’t be in that situation with that great of a challenge. All of a sudden we’ve got a ten minute conversation session. I have a ton of information about this person, a lot more than I would have had if I’d ask yes questions that can be answered yes or not.

Dee Ann: Right. Again, I’m kind of speeding through this, so I want to have an entire interview this based on those type of questions where I really learn about something. People who employed this tactic. I will tell you that you’ll increase the level of your talent 100% tomorrow by doing this impact. If your listeners want to go to my website.

Dee Ann: DeAnn Turner dot com I have a download there. They can download my top 25 behavioral interview questions and it not only gives you the question, it tells you what to look for in the answer.

Victoria: So there you go.

Dee Ann: That’s my gift today.

Victoria: Thank you. That’s awesome.

Dee Ann: Go grab that. So that’s an important part of the process. Let me tell you one other tactical thing that’s really important and that’s referencing. And not many organizations may not even want to hear that word anymore. But it’s important that you talk to people who some of the candidates actually being accountable, too. And it doesn’t always have to be up.

Dee Ann: It’s nice if it’s a past employer, but you can get people they’ve been accountable, too. In volunteer organizations. Ask them the same question about the candidate that you ask the candidate. Ask behavioral questions of those references and you’ll get better information. And anybody who’ll take the time to do those two things with their candidates, you’re going to improve the quality of your talent immediately.

Mark: Diane, could you speak a little bit to how I want to phrase this? I guess maybe getting out of your own way right now on remodeling. There’s there’s a major shortage of talent. You know, this all sounds wonderful, but when you when you understaffed, you’re trying to fill positions and all that. How do you how do you keep yourself disciplined, I guess, to not fill the fill the void for the do it right warm body.

Dee Ann: All right. I’m going to be honest with you. This is what I keep telling clients. And it’s it’s it’s like it’s not what you’re going to eat is not what you want to hear right now. But we are in a situation a lot of businesses are having to survive right now. You just got to get through it. During my career, I’ve seen this type of cycle three times and by far this has been the worst.

Dee Ann: My experience is eventually it changes. It probably change, unfortunately, because of the change in the economy. And when that happens, that gives you the time to take a step back and say, okay, I’m going to rebuild this whole thing from the ground up and I’m going to get I’m not in the hot seat at the moment, but I’m going to be there again because this is cyclical.

Dee Ann: So I’m going to change the way I do this. You don’t have time to build that as it’s happening. And I understand that and employ as many of these principles as you possibly can along the way, even if you work on one thing at a time because you’re so overwhelmed with this staffing issue. Yeah, but then when you get to the point that you’re not in crisis mode, don’t just forget about it because you’re not in crisis anymore, which is what a lot of organizations do.

Dee Ann: They’re like, okay, that’s past. No, that’s when you want to work on it so that when you get to crisis point again, you’re in a different situation and you’re better prepared with your talent.

Mark: So are you. So right now you’re kind of giving the Dean stamp of approval on If you have to do a stopgap bill, do it. Just plan better when when times are good.

Dee Ann: Well, I, I as you say it, I don’t love the way that sounds. So here’s a couple things. I’ll back to that.

Mark: Yes. Say it better. Yeah.

Dee Ann: Well, so, I mean, there is something to survival and I mean, I go in places every day and recognize that that’s what people are doing. But at the same time, you know, focus on one thing, like, okay, I’ve got to interview people, so I might as well interview people better. How much effort does that really take to do what I suggested, which is to do better interviews?

Dee Ann: So while you can’t read, what I’m saying is it is impossible when you’re in crisis to totally revamp your culture. Most organizations, if I told you to do that, you’d say your remodels remodelers would say, She’s crazy. That’s not possible. But if you can take one piece, if you can say, I’m going to interview better, I’m going to start referencing my talent to make sure that I have good talent on board that’s dealing with my clients and not hurting my reputation.

Dee Ann: Or, you know what I can’t I can’t build that rebuild the culture from the ground up all at one time. We can’t take a week off and go figure all this out, but I’m going to work on purpose for the next month and we’re going to we’re going to try to carefully define the why and when we get that they were going to move on and we’re going to talk about what is our big goal as an organization, what is the mission that we’re all working towards?

Dee Ann: And I’m going to spend time on that. That’s an approach. You know, it’d be nice if you could just stop everything you’re doing and go, okay, I’ll pick up Dee Ann’s book, Bet on Talent, and I’m going to go through that blueprint and I’m going to recreate this company in the next couple of months. That’s probably not likely in the situation we’re in, but you can work on a little piece at a time.

Dee Ann: In fact, as the leader of the organization, there’s no more important thing than you can be doing then that very thing. I hope that sounds better.

Victoria: Yeah, sounds great. It’s great.

Mark: I like it.

Victoria: So, you know, back in back in the day, two years ago, we would say, you know, don’t interview wants. You have me one interview and then you just bring the top candidates in for a second. Sometimes there’d be a group interview and the process could stretch out a bit. Do you have any secrets for how people can speed up the process now or how far they should take it, or should they today dissect their process that there’s been working in the normal times to shrink it, to fewer weeks?

Victoria: And what are some of the things they can do to speed this up? So, Lou, is a good prospect, right?

Dee Ann: Well, first of all, I really do believe in multiple interviews and I think that and here’s the reason why. It’s not because you can’t make up your mind about selecting talent. Usually after that first interview, if you do the interview correctly, like we talked about, you’re going to have a pretty good idea of what you think of this person.

Dee Ann: But 50% of the decision is theirs. And if you’re going to bring somebody on, that’s going to be a match with your culture, that’s going to win the hearts of your clients, then they’ve got to make a good decision to in a interview process that’s multi-step. It allows them to learn about your organization and make a good decision, too, because we know that that turnover is extremely costly, more costly than we even recognize sometimes at the top at the time.

Dee Ann: And so while it’s costly right now to recruit and select talent, it’s even more costly if they turn over. So it’d be better if they decide now they’re not interested. So by a multi step process, you’re giving them enough time to make a decision because too often this is what’s happening in the workforce right now. Companies are making quick decisions and in their mind, if it doesn’t work out well, we’ll just move on and pitch in.

Dee Ann: Candidates are making decisions. Well, I’ll take the job. If it doesn’t work out, I’ll just get another one. And that’s what’s wrong right now in who’s suffering. The customers are suffering because of all this turnover and this lack of commitment. So I think multi interviews are important, but at the same time, you got to get out that fluff of people.

Dee Ann: The leaders in your organization have to make selection of talent their highest priority. And that’s hard to do when you have so many demands on you, especially coming from clients. We want you to get this done or get that done. But if you’re not surrounded with great talent, you know, all those things aren’t going to get done anyway.

Dee Ann: So leaders have to make that their highest priority. And some tactical things they can do is simply it is simply allocating on their calendar. Every week I’m going to spend this afternoon interviewing. We’re going to spend this afternoon making decisions about the top, whatever it takes, allocate that time so that you keep that engine revved and moving and eventually that’s going to pay off for you more than scrambling to take care of the crisis.

Dee Ann: You’ve got to work on, you know, remember the four quadrants. You’ve got to work on what’s urgent and important, not just what’s urgent. And this is urgent and important.

Mark: All right. This is awesome. It’s all this interview talks got my juices flowing. You know what? It’s. It’s time to interview you. Are you ready for the lightning round?

Dee Ann: sure. Absolutely.

Mark: And now here’s a reminders advantage.

Dee Ann: Lightning round. It’s a track.

Mark: All right, let’s put 60 seconds on the clock. What’s your favorite business book and why.

Dee Ann: Do I have to pick one? Because I really have to in detail. All right. One real quick. Atomic habits by James Clear came out in 2018. It’s probably my highest recommended book. It just even to the things we were just talking about, you know, those kind of habits that you build in or can make you a great leader, great business owner.

Dee Ann: So that’s my number one and a great person, by the way. And then secondly, just as important is being disciplined in your habits is what’s at the heart of who you are and so Integrity by Dr. Henry Cloud is my other go to the canon once more about managing the emotional side of who you are as a leader.

Dee Ann: The others, the discipline side. I think that those together make two great books to help you be a great leader.

Mark: If you weren’t the CEO of Dan Turner and Associates, what do you think you’d be doing.

Dee Ann: Sailing around the world?

Mark: What are you not very good at numbers.

Dee Ann: When I went into business for myself, the two things that I missed the most about being at Chick-Fil-A was having an I.T. Department and an accounting department. I had to learn technology and numbers, so I would tell you that I’m bad at it, but I’ve learned a lot in the last four years.

Mark: Your room, your desk or your car, which was you clean first, then.

Dee Ann: All the above. I can’t sleep. If my room’s messy, I can’t work If my desk is messy and I really just don’t like a dirty car. So I’m sort of the neat for me.

Mark: What’s your biggest pet peeve?

Dee Ann: People who don’t do what they say they’ll do.

Mark: If you can have a theme song, what would it be?

Dee Ann: Taking care of business.

Victoria: That’s great. Thanks, Dee Ann. This has been wonderful and we are so excited to have you coming to be our keynote speaker and kicking off the 2022 Remodelers summit at Gaylord National Harbor here right by DC. So we’re really excited about that. So this is a great little precursor. Now if people want to learn more about your books and about what you do, where would they go?

Dee Ann: Well, first of all, let me say I’m extremely excited about being with you all this fall so that it’s going to be terrific now to learn about me. Go to Dee Ann Turner dot com. I’ve already mentioned that there’s a free download there. Yes, I’ll ask for your email. But the good news is I rarely ever send any, so you’ll be okay.

Dee Ann: So catch up with me there. Also on LinkedIn, I’d love to connect with your remodelers. And then also Facebook. Dee Ann Turner, author, Twitter at Dee Ann Turner and Instagram at Dee Ann Turner.

Victoria: All right. Wow. A lot of good social media there. Awesome. Now, before I let you go, however I want you to share your five words of wisdom and why they resonate with you.

Dee Ann: All right. You ready? Yep. Give yourselves some grace.

Mark: Very Nice.

Victoria: And wide. How does that resonate?

Dee Ann: Well, I’ve been somewhat at points of my career. I’m a recovering perfectionist. And, you know, if you don’t do that, if you beat yourself up every time something doesn’t go quite right, then you’re really limiting your ability to overcome it and to be successful. And so I wish I had known that earlier in my career that, you know, just you can also say give yourself some space, but I say give yourself some grace.

Dee Ann: DALY Just sit back and say, hey, I did the best I could and that’s enough.

Victoria: Wonderful, wonderful sentiment. Thank you so much for being here. We appreciate it. And I can’t wait to see you in September.

Dee Ann: Well, it’s been my pleasure, Victoria. Thank you so much. I’ll see you in September.

Victoria: Well, Dee Ann shared some great both strategic thinking thoughts as well as tactical thoughts.

Mark: Thinking thoughts.

Victoria: And.

Mark: Strategic goal thinking thoughts and tactical thinking thoughts. Yes, both of those. That’s a bumper sticker waiting to happen. Yeah.

Victoria: I can’t wait to hear some of the stories she’s going to share.

Mark: Yeah, it’s going to be really good.

Victoria: I mean, think of her 33 years in human resources and just building her expertise around finding great people.

Mark: Well, she obviously did a really good job at it because Chick fil A, we all know, is a powerhouse in in culture and talent. So, yeah.

Victoria: Yeah, no, she was great. And I’m really looking forward to having her at Summit. I think she’s going to stick around to talk to people after she does her keynote to for a while so people get to pick her brain a little bit more.

Mark: Yeah, it’s going to be awesome. And if this is the first you’re hearing of it, it must be the first time you’ve turned into the show. But Remodeler Summit is this September the 21st, I believe, and 22nd right here outside of D.C. at the Gaylord National Harbor Day and a half, two days of awesome content, 3336 speakers for tracks, production, business, succession planning, all kinds of good stuff.

Mark: And to find out more, you can visit remodelers summit dot com and register there. So we want to thank the and for popping in here and sharing just a an inkling of what she’s going to be talking about at the summit. And of course we want to thank you for listening week in and week out. I’m Mark Harari.

Victoria: And I’m Victoria Downing. See you next time.