Greg: Welcome to the Tim Faller Show, where production is paramount and we discuss the tools, time and people associated with getting jobs done and making a profit. On today’s episode of The Tim Faller Show, we’ll be talking about onboarding with the help of special guest Geoff Clark, production manager at Mac Renovations in Victoria, British Columbia, alongside Tim Faller; I am your co-host Greg Woleck.

Greg: Here is the Tim Faller Show.

Tim: Hey everyone, Tim Faller here and welcome to the Tim Faller Show. You know, you’ve been listening to me for several years now, but I always say if you got ideas, send them in. I’d love to chat about new topics, but if you’ve got like a new take on an old topic, let me know. Tim at remodelers advantage dot com.

Tim: So for those of you who missed the introductory podcast, the voice you just heard is Greg Woleck and he’s my new co-host and he’s going to be taking over all of my responsibilities at Remodelers Advantage when I retire. So not quite yet, but although I keep trying to push stuff off on him so I don’t have to do any work.

Tim: Right. But but I want to make sure that the audience out there understands that he has some skills. And Greg, like myself, was a lead carpenter. He was a project manager, particularly for some fairly large homes that he worked on. And he’s been doing some consulting for another company before he joined our. His strengths include things like Green building using technology, including a lot of the softwares that many of you are using out there.

Tim: And then lean in the production world as well as all the other things like job costing and scheduling and communication and client satisfaction that I’ve been harping on for many, many years. So if you’re interested in what he does, what his strengths are, shoot him a line at Believe it or not, Greg at remodel year advantage dot com.

Tim: All right. So for about 40 years it’s hard to believe when I wrote that down, I went, Whoa, It’s been a long haul. I’ve been in the position of either hiring people or advising people on who to hire. At first it was me and a few guys from church doing some remodeling work. And then, you know, Greg, I think maybe we ought to have a conversation about hiring friends and family or something like that because, you know, it works and then it doesn’t work right?

Tim: So then I became a production manager, and though not entirely responsible for hiring people, I did play a part in it. Then as a consultant, I’ve spent quite a bit of time advising business owners about different personalities and how they fit into different roles within a company. And so looking back on this and as I’ve grown and learned, I’ve seen a number of challenges to the hiring process, but I also see an incredible challenge in the onboarding process.

Tim: And in some cases, I think the failure to onboard people is the failure. It isn’t that we hired the wrong people. We’ve just didn’t take the time that’s really necessary to onboard people. And I’ve shared with people many times that when I became the production manager at the company in the DC area, I think this is a little bit of a joke, but I remember coming in and somebody saying, We’re so glad you’re here in town.

Tim: Here’s your office. Let us know if you need anything right now. I had worked for the company for a year as a lead carpenter, so I knew the company fairly well. Like I said, that may be a little simplistic, but it’s it feels like that’s what it was. And so I’m really happy to say that slowly over time, companies are changing, but I think a little bit too slow.

Tim: So when I hear from someone that they have what they believe is a great process for onboarding, I want to get out, get it on the air and get it out there, share it with the world through this podcast. So Greg, let’s go ahead and get started.

Greg: Thanks, Tim. We are excited to have Geoff Clark from Macro Innovations based in Victoria, British Columbia, joining us today. He’s been with Mac for nearly two years and has been in the production manager role for a year and a half. Geoff credits an excellent onboarding experience and helping him make a successful transition from the field to the office.

Greg: Welcome, Geoff.

Geoff: Hey, guys. Thanks for having me. Good to see you, Tim and Greg.

Tim: Hey, this is really super. So tell us a little bit more about Mac renovations.

Geoff: Yeah. Mac renovations. Like you say, we’re in Victoria, British Columbia, on the west coast of Canada. The company’s been around for 42 years. We’re a design build firm. It was started essentially in the owner’s basement 42 years ago, and then was him and a couple of buddies, basically. And it expanded to the point where we have, you know, 52 people on staff at this point in time.

Tim: 52

Geoff: Great.

Tim: So can you give us a little idea like how many are in the field doing the field construction work and how many office?

Geoff: Absolutely. Yeah. We have 20 people in the field, from laborers to carpenters, lead carpenters and all of that. We have six project managers, we have six sales staff, and then a number of admin staff, production coordinators, pre-production coordinators, and our own interior design staff.

Tim: All right, cool. So all right, so we’re talking about onboarding here. And so give us a little bit of a background of how it used to be done. And I think listeners will kind of be able to relate to that. And what was the catalyst that that got the business there saying we’ve got to do something different? Or has it been working really well for 40 years now?

Geoff: It’s a really good question. So this revamping of the onboarding process definitely started before I was with Mac and Robin. McDonald’s been a huge part of developing that process, and every time we talk about it is it got developed because we were making mistakes, we were putting the wrong people in the wrong seats. Hiring somebody with say, you know, good previous amount of skill sets and then just throwing them either out into the field or here, you know.

Geoff: Welcome aboard. Here’s your day one training. Now here’s your six projects to go manage. And we’re not setting people up for success. So it really taught us to, you know, hey, we got to slow this down. We got to pave the way. We got to tell you what that path is, tell you what success is and help you get there.

Geoff: So that way we’re all on the same page and working in the same manner.

Tim: So do you have I know you mentioned that this kind of got changed before you came on board, but have you heard any kind of horror stories about, you know, so and so and so and so that you that you can remember off the cuff here and share with us? Like like I remember Bill was hired and, you know, we did this and this.

Geoff: I don’t want to name too many names or anything like that, but but there’s definitely people that were brought on and it was just clear after, you know, even a couple of months being in a position, they were never right for that position, but say there was an absolute need to fill a hole. So kind of panic hired a bit.

Geoff: So this guy, you know, they seem good on paper. Yep. Perfect. They’re going to fit. Maybe the cultural steps got missed. Get them into the business, get them going, and then it turns out. Whoa, hold on a second. This is not working. So that’s where, you know, decide. Okay, we need to hit the reset button on how we hire.

Geoff: And really, it’s got to you know, the biggest thing is I always start with the culture. Is this person going to be the right fit for the position? And then expand outward on the hard skills from there.

Tim: All right, cool. So, I mean, I think most most of the listeners that have been around for a little while know that this is not just off the cuff conversation. We’ve talked a little bit ahead of time. And so let’s let’s walk through the steps that you guys like. What’s like step one in your onboarding process and what do you do and what do you like about it?

Geoff: Well, really, I like to think like our onboarding process. It actually starts during the interview process, like right away through our our job ads, through the postings on websites, everything that we use, even our job ads, they start with culture focused is essentially, is this person going to be the right fit for our company? Are they are forever learner?

Geoff: Do they have curiosity? Do they believe in collaboration, have a high level integrity and a high level of care based on our four core values? If that person aligns with this, they’re going to fit with the company. So once we can kind of get them through that part and be like, you know, you’re a decent person, you you live by the same things we do now.

Geoff: It’s okay. Can you do the job or even can you be taught to do that job? Because there’s a lot to say about having somebody with a strong cultural fit and maybe not the perfect skill set. The, you know, the hard skills can be a lot easier to teach than the soft skills and the core values. So it starts with that and then once we get it.

Tim: Mean I can I can see Geoff on on the video screen here. I can’t tell whether he’s reading anything or not, but I’m thoroughly impressed that he could blitz out those five core values. And because I’ve met a lot of people, yeah, they have core values, but they have to go look them up every time you ask, like, what are the core values?

Tim: They have to go find them. Not even, you know, like sitting on the desk somewhere. So we’re just going to praise you for that. Don’t tell us what’s really going on there, British Columbia. But congratulations on that. So it starts in the interview. I love that. I love that idea that we’re not waiting to get them in the door before we start calling out the people who may not be so tell me, how how do you know that someone is a lifetime learner?

Tim: I mean, for example, I mean when they come in to interview. Yeah, said it in the ad, but how do you know it?

Geoff: Well, I’m guessing realistically there’s not that everything’s a guess and hopefully that they’re telling the truth and answering the questions truthfully. But it is structured at really diving into the why, you know, why do you what do you know about Macron of Asians? Why do you want to work here? Where do you get fulfillment out of your current role?

Geoff: Where do you need to get more fulfillment in this role? And what does success look like? You’re not just know, Hey, I’m going to produce a good job on budget, on time. Everybody’s going to tell you that, especially for a project management role. But it is what makes you happy at the end of the day, when you go home at night, what left you feeling good?

Geoff: And if it kind of aligns with, you know, I was able to help grow person or, you know, navigate some tricky situations, you can kind of tell through their answers how they really feel about that. You can’t necessarily fake it all. And you absolutely you know, you can, but you hopefully can garner a lot of trust through them throughout that interview process by asking similar question multiple times throughout it to get a consistent answer base.

Tim: Okay. So they’ve responded. You have the interview and is there more to the interview that you want to tell us about?

Geoff: Yeah, we kind of we do. You know, for especially project manager positions, design positions, office positions, essentially we do a three step interview process. You know, the first interview we get. Yeah. And we meet. Yeah. You know, we kind of grilling a bit to get to really see if you do align with those values where you want to go in your career, where you’ve been, what you’re looking for.

Geoff: And then if that moves on to the next process, we send out what’s called a metrics report. It’s essentially a desk assessment. So then we can review that and then, you know, we’re kind of looking at that. Okay, How do we effectively communicate with you? Are you going how’s your manager to effectively communicate with you and then gain some more insight on where they may excel with the position they applied for or where they may struggle based on that?

Geoff: And then we can kind of cater the third interview, the final interview to kind of questions around that, how you’re going to make up for those deficiencies or or what, but plan for the future. Then you can start setting up for success in that manner.

Tim: Yeah, I don’t know if you know it. Geoff Again, since some of this was put together before you joined Mac, but this is exac what the book First Break All the Rules is telling us from a management perspective in that first interview, there’s nothing about the skills required for the job. It’s about the culture. Do they fit the culture?

Tim: Can you, can, can, will they identify with what we’re looking for? And I really, really like that. I like that starting point. And then you can get into the other stuff as you move forward. Now somebody is going to say, Well, we can never get three interviews, we only get one, and then they go higher with somebody else.

Tim: Is that a challenge for you guys? Is there a way that you overcome that, that you you know, you’re really like this person and and you’re you’re Yeah, I don’t know. You get them to kind of kind of make a deposit, so to speak, so that they don’t run off and work for a competitor.

Geoff: It’s funny you ask that. When I first came on with Mac and looked at that interview process, that was my first thought as well as like, Wow, maybe is that a little long? Are we going a little far? But realistically, and it’s the same thing. Sorry, the same thing. I thought about the job ads. I’m like, Wow, this is really long before you get down to what the position is, but what you’re really doing is weeding out the people that are probably not the right fit.

Geoff: If you’re scrolling through a job after you’re going through that and you’re just looking, Hey, I just want to get to what you’re going to offer me as far as a wage and compensation. That’s not the person. If this person is looking for that, you know, coming here for becoming a mac for the right reasons, for the lifestyle change, for the really good work life balance, that team atmosphere, you’re willing to wait that time.

Geoff: If you’re going to rush through, you’re probably not the right fit anyhow. But, you know, if we get a really strong can and we don’t make this take 3 to 4 weeks, we do go through the steps as quickly as we can. You know, ideally within a week to two week time period, we’ll go through all three interviews.

Tim: Okay, I got it.

Greg: Geoff, I was wondering that that first interview, we call them the grill him interview, what percentage of people do you think get through that?

Geoff: I’m just trying to think, you know, a lot. I’d say there’s a good 90% that get through that, you know, with the fact of how we prescreen clients or potential employees as well through our ads. We’re not getting a lot of tire kickers. We’re getting people that are serious about wanting a change for the right reasons.

Tim: Okay, cool. So now they’re on board, they’ve signed the dotted line. Whatever the paperwork is that has to be done. What’s the onboarding process?

Geoff: So it’s, you know, day one and day two, no matter what position we hire for, it’s essentially the exact same day one, you’re coming into the office and it’s a long day, but you’re going to spend the first 8 hours. You’re going to get to know the employee handbook, You’re going to go through our health and safety manual.

Geoff: So that way everybody understands our safety program and how safety is paramount within our company. And a big factor in everything that we do and decisions we make is going through that. You get walked around the office, introduce to everybody that’s in the office, you get a tour of our storage yards where we keep everything, no matter what position you are, you know, the layout of the office.

Geoff: You get to put some faces to names. You know, you’re not going to remember names on the first day, but at least you recognize, right? And then after day one is where it starts to differ. Gender. Day one in two stories where it starts to differ. If you’re part of the field crew after day two, you’re going to go out into the field.

Geoff: You know, you’re going to start working with the Carpenters. You’re going to we’ll work with the laborers. We try to disperse people a little bit to get them to bounce around at the start so they get exposure to all our different team members. And then we kind of look and see, okay, who do we think this person’s going to excel with, whose personalities line up to help put them at ease coming into a new company with out on the field and then for office staff, project managers, salesmen, designers, we have a fairly regimented on boarding plan and checklists that they go through.

Geoff: You can get into that week. One is essentially getting to know people, getting to know the different departments. So it’s all about exposure, helping people know, hey, I’m here, I’m the new PM and I’m going to I’m going to get to know you share what each positions do. So you’ll go sit down with design or go sit down with the project coordinator and they’ll tell you about their day to day so you understand a bit about their job.

Geoff: And then you start to understand how what you output impacts that are their position. So how you can effectively work together for success and through week two start getting down into, you know, soap land. Hey, this, this is how our standard operating procedures work. This is how you should be doing these jobs. Start reviewing design packages, providing feedback on them.

Geoff: You get set up with your your onboarding peer. So for a project manager, you’ll get paired up with one of our experienced project managers and you’ll basically be side by side with them throughout the onboarding process. So they’re responsible for going through recipes with you as they go through items. So as they’re creating a schedule, as they’re doing a cost to complete site visits, all of these things, the new employees to kind of review the soap and then go through that process in real time with that project manager.

Geoff: So they actually understands how it goes instead of just how it works in theory because, you know, we have address ops, but that’s not 100% accurate. Yeah.

Tim: Yeah. So is it is it the same like for a project manager? Do you have one project manager that is the trainer or do you kind of divide set them up with different people depending on who that you think they’ll get along best with.

Geoff: So we’ve done it a couple of different ways actually, since I started in the first time we onboarded or I onboarded, sorry, a project manager, they got paired up with so many different kind of for every task and it worked okay, but it wasn’t as consistent as it could be because you’re also getting somebody else is different. Take kind of on each task because there’s different personalities, different styles.

Geoff: So what we try to do is pair up who is this person going to be comfortable with, what personalities are going to match, and then we pair them with them to go through this. But they do go on what are called ride alongs. So in the very early on, you know, you’re going to go for an afternoon ride along with each project manager to go to their various projects, get windshield time with them.

Geoff: So you’re conversating, you’re getting to know each other, but you see how they do it as well. But your main onboarding peer is one continuous person.

Tim: Yeah. So I’m as I’m sure by the time you get them to this part of the job, this doesn’t come up. But does anybody ever say anything like and I know this job, can’t I just get started on it?

Geoff: It’s funny you mention that. We’re literally going through that right now. You know, like our onboarding, it is geared. So this is you know, we could take somebody with absolutely minimal experience and hopefully churn them out for success. Where we were just had the luxury of hiring an experience. PM And she is absolutely blitzed through this onboarding package, so but she’s still been able to follow it linear, like it’s broken out by weeks, but she’s still been able to follow.

Geoff: You’ll follow the linear steps. She’s just beating the deadlines. So all we’re doing now is expediting, getting projects assigned to her that she’s running with her onboarding peer, that then once we do deem that this person, you absolutely know what you’re doing, you are competent, you are going to handle this the way. Okay, we’re going to split you guys off.

Geoff: This is officially your project as the new project manager. And what that does to is it customer facing. She’s been there since the start too, so it’s not like, hey, we got this new project manager, we’re going to switch him halfway through. It’s no, no, she was onboarding, but she’s been here since the beginning, so there’s nothing lost in translation.

Tim: So what about what else happens in the onboarding? I had, I had jotted down something like four weeks to 90 days. There are goals that have to be hit. Is that a is that something that I missed that I got right?

Geoff: No, no, You’re 100% correct. Yeah, it’s we have so for the first 30 days, like, you know, rudimentary, this is kind of like dating. The first 30 days is basically the first date, right? We’re getting to know each other. We’re getting to know how each other works. You’re getting exposed to everything, having good conversation. And for the next 60 days now it’s like, okay, are we getting a little serious?

Geoff: So it’s now can you actually do these tasks on your own? Can you run your own calendar? Can you manage your own time? All those sorts of things. And at the end of the 90 days, it’s kind of like, okay, how are we going to answer? We go on on which which one is this? You know, this is our last chance.

Geoff: Yet you’re a great fit. By the end of this 90 days, you’re ready to run all your own projects. We’re good to go. Or, Hey, you know what for whatever reason, this isn’t the right fit. We’re going to go our separate ways. And for that person as well, right? Maybe after 90 days, they’re not feeling confident with Mac anymore, right?

Tim: Yeah. So you go through all of this. I’m just going to take your your stellar brand new project manager. She’s fantastic. She’s great. She’s pushed on through. What’s the follow up from your vantage point that says, like for that example, like maybe we pushed through and and missed something? In other words, what what’s the follow up once she starts doing her her jobs?

Tim: Taking care of her jobs, what’s the follow up that takes place to say, yes, this really is going to work?

Geoff: So so what we do is we set up for her and I or any project manager dies. We have a weekly meeting where a standing one hour where during this onboarding we’re going through the onboarding checklist. We’re checking, Hey, have you done this, this and this, reviewing that, it’s done. Understood. And then we’ve also set up the week ahead.

Geoff: We’re okay. What’s left to do? And then what this does is this standing weekly meeting then turns into the project managers GSR. So we keep in touch. So once they’re through the onboarding and running projects and we’re still having a weekly meeting where we have open conversation and then we’re tracking, you know, GP’s on jobs and you will slippage, wakes events and very, I don’t want to say micromanaging, but we’re talking about every nitty gritty detail of that job.

Geoff: So it’s very easy to stay involved with them and then know if they’re on track, off track, if they did understand how we were supposed to do something or not.

Tim: Okay, yeah, this is great because I as as much as it just makes perfect sense, it’s amazing how many companies I run into where they, you know, you go through all these steps and then, all right, jurors go for it. And there really isn’t that follow up. Now, what is GSR just so everybody knows that.

Geoff: Yeah, sometimes I forget not everybody does that. It stands for goal set review. And basically it’s that weekly production meeting if you want to call as well where we thought we don’t just talk about production, we talk, you know, we have 5 minutes where we talk about how are you doing this week, How’s your personal life, what’s going on?

Geoff: Where do you need support? And then we get into that. Okay. You know, we look at your list of projects, we visually go through each schedule. We use builder trends. So we go through each schedule. What’s happening this week? What’s happening next week? Are we going to hit this date or not? And why can we do anything about getting it back on track for you?

Geoff: And then same thing with the financials. Review the web once a month and go from there.

Greg: Geoff, it sounds like you’re your your checklist here is a very good way of managing expectations of your new employee. What kind of effort went into making that checklist? It sounds like it’s pretty robust.

Geoff: It’s a lot of trial and error. You know, like I said, this was set up before I got here, but myself and Rob and our office manager, we continually go through this, update it, we’re adding things, we’re deleting things, we’re making things more relevant as the business changes. So it’s just a robust checklist we create that we’re always altering.

Geoff: We’re always looking in like, same thing with our new onboarding staff. We ask them, Hey, is there anything in this on board that didn’t work? Is there anything this on board that would have been better? You know, what have we taught you now? It 90 days, 120 days that you really wished you knew sooner and then we’re always altering it to suit.

Tim: So is it is it fair to say that if it’s a production person, you’re managing this process and if it’s office based designer, then Robin manages it? Is that the way it works?

Geoff: Yeah, we have like I’m the production manager here. We’ve also got a pre-production manager who takes care of design and millwork, so I’d manage anybody on the production staff. Pre-production manager takes care, millwork in design. The office manager excuse me, would take care of any office involved people, and then the sales manager would take care of any sales staff.

Tim: I got it. Okay, so one of the things that’s been happening a lot, I feel certain it’s happening where you are as well is just fast growth. I mean, companies have just exploded over the last four or five years and in some cases sales are being made. Hey, Geoff, here’s your next job. Welcome. Yeah. How do you manage to do all of this or a new person coming in and and get them ready to take on jobs when jobs are just coming through the pike?

Tim: Do you understand the question?

Geoff: I do, yeah. We tried to, you know, between myself, the sales manager, we have forecasting meetings frequently. So we’re really we’re trying to look ahead. We’re we’re not in the position where we need to hire now. We’re really trying to look at, hey, you know what? In year, you know, it’s November. Now in January, February, we’re going to need another PM or we’re going to need to have somebody that’s ready to be a lead carpenter or an interior designer, whichever.

Geoff: So we try to forecast ahead so that way we’re not hiring when we need them. So if you’re hiring when you need somebody, it’s really tough. But at that same token, we don’t rush to hire it. We’re still everybody’s going to go through this process. We’re going to make sure you are the right fit because we’ve done it before where we were in a pinch fast fasttrack somebody, we hired them and it did not work out right.

Geoff: We didn’t set them up for success. They were not the right fit and beginning. So, you know, it wasn’t a good experience for them either. So you just you always got to remind yourself there’s a process to follow. There’s a reason we hire the way our do it is for the long term. So you just can’t lose sight of that and it gets tough.

Geoff: You know, we get in a pinch where we’re struggling. People are getting a little overburdened and potentially looking at some burnout, but it’s just making sure we can set it up the best we can. And, you know, sometimes pray that sales will slow down and maybe not sign ready.

Tim: Praise for that. But so what’s the metric? Let’s just say let’s just say project manager. What’s the metric if you’re looking at? So we’re recording this in November, early November, and you have that forecasting meeting and you say in February, we’re seeing this, which means I better get busy and hire another project manager. What’s that metric?

Geoff: I’m sorry, what do you mean by what’s that metric.

Tim: Like looking at another 2 million in sales or are you looking at looks like we’re going to close seven jobs when we’re only going to have people for three? Or how do you how do you decide we got to hire somebody now and then on board them?

Geoff: Yeah. Thank you. So we do have you know, we call it the master project sheet, and then I personally have a PM project manager capacity sheet. So we do look at, okay, where are we at right now, what jobs are closing, what precautions are over 80% likely to sign in and how does that look in, how far out?

Geoff: And then we make that educated decision. You know, project managers are kind of expected to run between six and eight projects at a time, including predictions. But it really does depend size of job, complexity and job. Obviously, there are some jobs that are easier to run than others. None don’t have challenges, but we look at all of that.

Geoff: We get really granular with it and they make that decision like, yeah, we need to, we need to hire now, yeah, we are going to be busy. And it is the hope that the predictions are going to sign. There’s always a chance that they don’t, right? But we’d rather have an extra person and then have to find some jobs than have jobs.

Geoff: Sign and have to find a person. These sales and we have a great sales staff if we need them to fill a calendar, they will. Yeah. So it’s better to have the people to support the work than to work to bury the people.

Tim: Yeah, that’s that’s really, really good. So I think I think the message basically is you got to have it figured out. Like what’s the trigger point that says we got to hire now because so many people get, like you said, they get buried and then try to hire people and it’s hard to make them to do the right thing.

Tim: They’re on board properly. If you just can’t get the job’s done the way you want to. So we’re going to wrap up here, Geoff. This has been absolutely fantastic. And so maybe just like, I don’t know, a golden nugget, right, that says to everybody listening in on this, like, what would you encourage them to do? Maybe to get started or maybe to maybe develop this this process?

Geoff: I’d never forget about culture, no matter how tough things get, no matter how few applicants you’re getting. Just don’t forget about the culture and what that can do to the business, you know, to the people that are already there. It doesn’t take long to erode a culture if you stop focusing on it. And then for setting up an onboarding process, really dive into what didn’t work.

Geoff: You know, if you got a history of a couple of people with a big turnaround or a short turnaround period, why what happened and how do we how do we make this lesson a more robust onboarding process that you can skinny down is better than not having a good one at all as fantastic.

Tim: Well, Geoff, thank you very much for all this information. And you just might be hearing from some of the listeners that are interested in kind of looking at it at a deeper level with you. So thanks for taking a little bit of time for us now.

Geoff: Thank you guys very much. It was great to be here.

Greg: Geoff, I want to thank you once again for joining us today on the Tim Faller Show. We wish you continued success and look forward to having you back on the show in the future.

Geoff: Thank you, guys.

Greg: Tim, what did we learn today?

Tim: my goodness. You know, I wanted to get Geoff on because I think they’ve worked hard at making this happen the whole the whole thing about culture and culture is a little bit of a woo thing for a lot of people. It’s very hard to define it. I made a big deal out of Geoff just being able to rattle off the five points of their, you know, of of their core values, which a lot of people can’t do that that work in a company even at the level that he is.

Tim: And so being able to just know what those are and get them out there and then the idea that their their marketing, if you will, I’m putting air quotes here they’re marketing for new employees. Focus is on that to start with. And then as you trickle down, you get to like what are some of the skills that are necessary for this job?

Tim: And so that whole cultural thing I keep hearing about it, but I think that’s one of the most important things that that we talked about here today.

Greg: Yeah, that’s top of my list as well. I have, you know, culture and values focus companies. I think we are hearing more and more about that and I think that’s super important. I like the peer mentor. Yeah. Addition, I work for a company where we had something like that and it was really a great deal. And then like any of these things that we try to implement without a feedback loop, it’s not usually worth it in the fact that they have a feedback loop and are asking the questions.

Greg: I think that’s, you know, that’s a really great part of this exercise here.

Tim: Yeah. And so the whole idea of asking people that were hired, you know, how did it work for you is huge because you learn different people, different personalities, different things and so forth like that. I wanted to mention to that I made a big deal out of it during the podcast itself, but the whole idea of the three steps of the interviewing, I guess, you know, that is crucial to getting the right people in and then and then following through on that with, with the onboarding.

Tim: So I think just that whole process, like I mentioned that I think there’s a great book out there called First Break All the Rules, a guy named Marcus Buckingham, and it’s a study actually that was done through Gallup organization. And one of the things they did in there was is talk about the hiring process. And they this is one of their key points is in that first interview, you’re not talking about like how many jobs can you run?

Tim: At the same time, you’re talking about those core values and whether someone fulfills those or not. I really like the idea, you know, like it’s a dating situation. I was a little bit afraid where it was going to go with step three. But, you know, I like that idea. Hey, we’re just getting to know each other. Then the second month or so, we’re getting to the nitty gritty about who we really are and can we, you know, can we exist in this relationship?

Tim: And then thirdly, are you putting into are you doing the job, you know, in that third month? And so then you can really see has the onboarding taken effect and is this the right person because they’re actually capable of doing the job?

Greg: Absolutely. All right. Well, once again, we like to thank Geoff Clark of Mac Renovations for joining us today. And thank you for listening to another episode of The Tim Faller Show.

Tim: And remember, at the Tim Faller Show, we’re working hard to eliminate. It is what it is from your vocabulary.