Mark: Today on Power Tips Unscripted. Victoria and I are going off book and having a conversation. It’s going to be exciting. Stay tuned for it.

Victoria: Hi, I’m Victoria Downing and welcome to Power Tips Unscripted, where we talk about tips, tactics and techniques to help you build a strong, profitable remodeling company. And I’m here with my co-host Mark Ferrari.

Mark: You. Yeah. You are.

Victoria: Yeah. So it’s gonna be a little different today, Mark.

Mark: It is going to be different. This is this is an ad hoc. Yeah. Episode. So, to to bring our listeners up to speed. It’s Friday, it’s the end of the day. It’s about 430 in the p m, which is pretty much closing time around here. And, we were just talking about all kinds of good stuff, and I said, we gotta just do an episode and just chat it up.

Mark: So here we are.

Victoria: Yeah. So here we are. So, you know, again, part of this is born out of our, I guess, our sense of frustration at what we see in everyday life. We want to share it with you, to give you our perspective. So you could make sure that your company is doing a little better than some of the things we’re going to talk about today.

Mark: Yeah, I think we’re gonna we’re let’s call this episode. What were they thinking?

Victoria: What were they.

Mark: Thinking? What are they think we should I gosh, I wish we had, like a theme song. What were they.

Victoria: Thinking? Maybe we could hire somebody to make.

Mark: Yeah, I shouldn’t be doing it, but. Yeah, it’s. There’s been some interesting stuff, and I don’t know, I’m excited to talk about it, but that was your week.

Victoria: It’s been great. We just got through our first week of in-person roundtable meetings, and I got to sit in with a bunch of different groups and listen to them, you know, share their knowledge and insights and advice. And I’m just pumped that.

Mark: You can tell. Yeah, it was fun.

Victoria: Energizing to talk strategy and in person is just super exciting.

Mark: I can’t wait I’m going to be going down there. Because we’re having most of our meetings, a lot of our listeners may not know this, but we typically fly all over the country. But to kind of control the situation and what’s happening now with Covid, we definitely wanted to have in-person meetings. Not every member was comfortable meeting in person yet.

Mark: So to be able to control everything and do a hybrid meeting where we can have the technology there so people can phone in and also have the video and all that stuff we’re having. Virtually all of our members meet in Annapolis, which is just outside of Baltimore. Of course. And, I mean, the place is beautiful. It’s great.

Mark: And and so far, so good. I mean, the reviews have been fantastic, this hybrid. I was pretty nervous about it.

Victoria: Yeah. You know, one of the things that has been spectacular is the, the technology. We have cameras that and speakers that move according to who’s speaking. So the people that are virtual, you know, in Oregon or California can see exactly who’s speaking at any one time and you can pick up a body language is just so awesome.

Mark: Yeah, it’s pretty cool. I watched the demo.

Victoria: One guy said today, this has been awesome, but I never want to do it again. You know?

Mark: You mean one that was remote?

Victoria: Yeah, he was remote. Yeah. He said, this is an awesome set up. I just don’t want to do it again. I want to be in person. And I would.

Mark: Suspect that, you know, and you know, I will never criticize. And everybody’s entitled to how they feel. You got to be at your comfort level to come out. But I would suspect that more than more so than not. So people are going to see their peers in the room engaging in and think, man, I can’t wait to get back into that room.

Mark: Yeah. But yeah, I mean, it’s great that we’re even able to execute that. So I’m just excited to be back and you know this is good. I’m I’m planning I didn’t make, you know, just the craziness of what we do. Man. I couldn’t make it out this week to to meet up with any of our members. But I’m hoping in the next few weeks to come to get down there for at least one day of every meeting, because I’d like to, to to shake some hands and see some some faces.

Victoria: Still up and elbows. But, you know, it’s fun talking.

Mark: I’m fully vaccinated and I’m comfortable shaking. But if you’re not, I’ll do the, what’s the foot thing? You the foot tap or the elbow tap or elbow taps?

Victoria: One for me.

Mark: I’ll do whatever. It’s fine. I’m just happy to be outside of, freaking zoom meeting personally. Yeah. See people’s legs again. I never thought I’d miss legs.

Victoria: Pants.

Mark: Or pants. I always knew I’d miss if people stopped wearing them. But, yeah, I mean, just. You don’t see them anymore, so it’s. It’s a nice surprise. Anyway, shall we get back to this? The whole theme. Like, what were they thinking? All right. It’s just going to be crazy. So I’m going to. If it’s okay with you, I’m going to start.

Mark: Yeah. So for those of you that don’t know and that’s probably every single person listening, I finally have given in to my wife’s 20 year demand to get our kitchen remodeled. So we started the process. And first I’m going to start to reach out to our members first and all that because, you know, you got it. You get it.

Mark: You’re going to be loyal to the to this, to the members, but.

Victoria: Loyal to the one who brung you.

Mark: Right? Absolutely. But I’m reaching out to a bunch and Victoria actually recommended someone that I should look at and this person wasn’t a member. It was in an alumni. So a former member. But oh my goodness, how far we have fallen. That’s why this is why you don’t leave Remodelers advantage.

Victoria: Yeah.

Mark: So so here’s my story. I respect everybody’s process. And even though I have, you know, Victoria recommended somebody, she’s got a phone number and an email address. And I can go into our database and find email addresses and phone numbers. I’m going to go through your process. And I made that decision right up front. So I went to the website and I filled out their form and I went through their process of an online lead right.

Mark: So I went to this particular company’s website, and I submitted the form and I got the, you know, thanks. We’ll be in touch.

Victoria: So the auto.

Mark: Right. And so I could spend an hour on that. I mean, talk about a missed opportunity to just leave it at that. You know, just huge opportunities to continue getting more information and all that from after that initial form is submitted, but I digress. We will not talk about that right now. Submitted the form and went about my business 24 hours.

Mark: No response, 48 hours, no response. So the next morning I went back to the form and submitted it again and I just said, hey, I submitted a form a couple days ago. I haven’t heard from anybody, so I just wanna make sure your web form is working. Maybe you missed it. I’d love to talk to you. Now let me step back for a minute.

Mark: The web form required me to give my name, my email address, which I used my professional email address from Marquette Remodelers advantage.com, and it had some checkboxes that I could select what I was interested in. And it was everything, you know kitchen, new kitchen, new bath, sunroom addition, basement, blah blah blah. Right. So I checked off kitchens and we were actually even considering possibly expanding and knocking out the master bathroom at the same time.

Mark: So I checked bathroom master bathroom, actually. So that being said, I submitted the second form and just take the same things. So later that afternoon, about eight and nine hours later, I finally got a response from the owner and.

Mark: I have the email here. So here is the reply. Mark, we do not reply to this form because you’re a salesperson, not a suspect. Regards. Name. Company phone number. Now that went through me, as you can imagine. Like how presumptuous because it came from someone whose email address is Marquette or email is advantage. I mean, he’s essentially he’s flat out calling me a liar because I filled out the form saying what services I wanted to use.

Mark: I could have had the option to leave them all blank. So he’s thinking, this is a salesperson that has the audacity to pretend to be a customer just to get him on the phone. Maybe he’s had that situation before. I won’t deny it. It’s perfectly possible. And if that is the case, that’s a bummer. And clearly that guy, that salesperson or gal or whomever it was is not going to get his business because they were they were false.

Mark: They lied to get their foot in the door. But to assume that everyone that submits a form, because if someone from you know that has a that you know, at GAF ecom email or at pella.com email is automatically a salesperson because none of these people own homes, but none of these people do. You know, to to be that presumptuous and to come back and say, I didn’t respond because you’re a salesman and we don’t, you know, I mean, it just oh my gosh, it went through me.

Mark: So I responded to him and I said, I’m looking to remodel. I do happen to be the vice president of Remodelers Advantage and Victoria Downing. She actually told me to call you. She recommended you as an alumni. And I reached out. And then, of course, she sends an email back apologizing up and down. But, you know, that ship sailed at this point.

Mark: I mean, I’m not. I said, you know, thank you, but no, thank you. It’s that’s not good. What was he thinking?

Victoria: What was he thinking? And, you know, what was I thinking to refer him? I’m just appalled at myself. I mean, it’s obvious.

Mark: Clearly, he runs a good company. And he used to be a Roundtable’s member, and. And you know that it’s. I think it’s just one of those blips on the radar. And I don’t want to. And obviously we’re not going to divulge who it was or anything like that, but it very well could have been a one off. Oops.

Mark: Right. And everybody’s entitled to them. But I think it’s definitely a learning moment. It’s definitely a teachable moment as they say. Right. And that’s why I wanted to share it with our listeners. Because what were you thinking, man? Yeah, it takes no time out of it. Even if you are 99.9% sure you’re being solicited. Somebody submitted a lead form on your website unless they outright said, I’m using your form to sell to you.

Mark: It just it.

Victoria: Man, I’ve heard of the bridge. Well, I burned the bridge. You know what it is?

Mark: Actually, I want to step back. This is freaking. You know what it is? This is pretty woman.

Victoria: This. Oh, yes. Yes, this is.

Mark: Pretty.

Victoria: Woman. She set.

Mark: Up, she walks in right.

Victoria: Back up, set her up a little bit more. Not everybody has seen it all. I think 99.99.

Mark: If you haven’t seen Pretty Woman now everybody seem pretty. Woman. Oh, I don’t know.

Victoria: Julia Roberts Julia Roberts here.

Mark: Julia Roberts and she’s a prostitute, but she’s a lovable prostitute. So everything is okay, right? And she kind of gets hooked up with Richard Gere, and they have a thing, and they kind of connect. And he takes her under his wing, so to speak, and anyway, long story short, fast forward, fast forward. He gives her a credit card and says, hey, go have fun.

Victoria: And like, it’s not like Beverly Hills.

Mark: Oh yeah, it’s.

Victoria: Like.

Mark: She’s like, it’s Saks Fifth Avenue. Or is that a big thing?

Victoria: Or. Well, not as big as some, but what city were they in there? New York.

Mark: They were different.

Victoria: So really high in I.

Mark: It was I thought it was a, it was like all the hot shot places in L.A. Beverly Hills coach in that she. And. Yeah.

Victoria: Yeah I love it up there.

Mark: Okay. So, so like, you know, hot, hot places. And she walks in and as soon as she walks through the door, the salespeople kind of are looking at her like, judging a book by the cover, right? You never judge a book. And of course, you can imagine they just kind of say thank you in the wrong place.

Mark: You shouldn’t be here with this.

Speaker 3 Do you think I help you? I’m just checking things out. Are you looking for something in particular? Not. Well. Yeah. Something conservative. Yes. You got my stuff. Thank you. How much is this? I don’t think this would fit you well. I didn’t ask for fit. I asked how much it was. How much is this, Marie? It’s very expensive.

Speaker 3 It’s very expensive. Look, I got money to spend in here. I don’t think we have anything for you. You’re obviously in the wrong place. Please leave.

Mark: And she feels horrible. And she goes home. Or she goes back to the apartment and she’s feeling miserable. And when he finally gets home, he says, you know, you have fun today. Thinking she had a blast. This poor woman that’s never had much just got a shopping spree at one of the most luxurious strips of, retail on Earth.

Mark: Right? And of course, she’s in tears. And she said it wasn’t as good as I thought. And he finds out. So he takes her out. He takes her to a different place and just gets her. He’s like, by her side. I mean, just spends tens, if not hundreds of thousands of dollars on her, gets her all dolled up, and then she walks in to that same shop, you know.

Mark: Right. It’s nine shopping bags in hand, all dressed up, and the women run to her. They don’t even recognize her. They’re just excited. They won’t.

Speaker 3 Say. You say I don’t like you. Hi. Hello. Do you remember me? No. I’m sorry, I was in here yesterday. You wouldn’t wait on me. You work on commission, right? I yes. Big mistake. Big, huge. I have to go shopping now.

Mark: Big mistake.

Victoria: Yeah.

Mark: Huge huge mistake. And then just walks out all glowing like a peacock. And, it’s great, it’s great. But anyway, it just popped in my head. This. That’s what this is. There’s huge stories. There’s been stories of what’s his name, Facebook guy Zuckerberg. Yeah. You know, I mean, he was wearing sweat pants and, and a hoodie to, to board meetings, right?

Mark: So he would walk into places, and they think he was a bum before he was recognizable. And he’s got $10 million in his back pocket. So people were judging him, and he did.

Victoria: Yeah. Okay, so I got one. Oh, okay. So I bought a little house, and, I’m I’m not into mowing lawns. It’s got a little lawn. It’s pretty plain. So I wanted to hire somebody to do my lawn. So I asked around and I got a recommendation for a lawn and garden center down the way, so. All right, so I call him up and they say, okay, we’ll be over on Tuesdays back in October right before, you know, we’re in Maryland, right before the weather change and grass stopped growing basically.

Victoria: So I said, all right, great. And we’re doing it all through text. All right. You come in, you send me the price, I okayed it. It’s all good. They come, they mow the lawn. It’s a beautiful job. I write back, I say, hey, this is fantastic. What do I do? How do I pay? No response. Crickets.

Mark: So this was when last?

Victoria: This is October, last October it’s now me. Okay, so I’m like, okay. So, you know, I’ll just sit on it for a while. I know I and I, contracted sort of texting, contracted with him to do my lawn all this coming season. So it starting to be April and my grass is starting to grow, and I’m getting kind of embarrassed, and I don’t know anything.

Victoria: I’ve heard nothing. So I texted the guy and said my on the list. It’s like, remind me of your address. I’ll make sure you’re on the list. I sent on my address, heard nothing. Finally, they a week or two goes by, but grass is looking really bad. Our new neighbor. I’m embarrassed to tears like, excuse me, but could you tell me when you think you might be by.

Mark: Did you by any chance have a car on cinder blocks on there?

Victoria: You know, so they said we’ll be there on Tuesday. Okay, great. So I come home on Tuesday. Lawns. Beautiful. They did a great job. Looks awesome. I wrote, texted him again, said great job. Really like it. How do I pay you? And I have not heard from them since. I have no idea. And they say that’s just.

Mark: Happened a week ago or.

Victoria: So now. It’s been about three weeks probably. So let’s do again. So.

Mark: So you’ve had two lawn service, right. Visits.

Victoria: Yes.

Mark: Starting in October. Right. And of course the season was ending. So you were right at the tail end of the end of the season in Baltimore at least. And then we went through the winter. And then you re-upped and started again. And they came out and they cut again. And now you’re three weeks in and you are yet to give a penny to this company.

Victoria: Nor do I know when they’re coming back, you know. Nor do I know what are my responsibilities to call them each time I need them. Lawn mowing or what?

Mark: Well, if the trade off is that you got to remember to call them, but they’re not going to charge you, then that’s probably a good deal. But that’s not the best business policy in the world. But yeah, that’s that’s one of those what were they thinking? You know.

Victoria: And I, I mean, I feel a little guilty because I’m one of those people that, hey, people trust me.

Mark: I know you’ve I’ve seen you actually go back into a restaurant because they, you realized they did something wrong and have them edit the check.

Victoria: Yeah. Pay them more. Right. So I’m waiting and I’ll see what happens. But what are they thinking? What are they thinking?

Mark: Yeah. You know, but I do think that lawn care side’s a little bit off because they’re just they’re kind of more they’re we’ll get to it when we get to it. I’ve, I’ve run and I’ve encountered I’ve personally have had more than two lawn care companies. And these guys tend to just kind of, you know, it’s we’re going to get our money.

Mark: We’re gonna we’re going to build. Yeah, we’ll get there, we’ll get to it. And it’s a but but it’s not great because, you know, some, some clients, first of all, this whole thing of like I don’t know what’s going on. The this sets the feeling of what’s am I good. Are they going to show up today? Just it’s like a lottery.

Mark: And I don’t want to feel like my lawn being cut is a lottery ticket that I won. And when I get home, it’s Thursday after. Oh yes, I won this week. Yes, I got the lawn cut.

Victoria: I want to know, right?

Mark: I want to know. I want to be on a regimented schedule.

Victoria: Tell me what the heck.

Mark: And not only that, but you know, some people, they’re not good with their own personal finance. I mean, all of the sudden, imagine if you’re doing this exact same situation with someone that’s not so good with their money and they don’t keep track of stuff, and then all of a sudden you’re going to hit them with a bill for $1,500.

Mark: That includes nine months ago, right? Seven months ago last week. And, you know, a month. And you’re going to you’re opening yourself up to being left out. You’re just not going to get it.

Victoria: Right.

Mark: Now, I don’t think this resonates. This specific situation really connects with a lot of the listeners on this. But but I think what they can’t get out of it is you get so wrapped up in your own process and your own system and you think it’s it’s fine. It’s not a big deal. But you’re you’re you’re not being empathetic.

Mark: You’re not remembering what this experience feels like to the client. Right. And the client is lost. Or they’re thinking, what, you don’t want a client to ever be thinking, where do I stand with this company? Right. Whether it’s with a next scheduled service or with a billing or with anything. Right? Every client should always know where they stand with you, you know?

Victoria: I mean, I think that that whole lack of communication thing starts even in the, in the way we, the way that our clients and we, I guess, present ourselves to the world. Like in the roundtable meeting today with one of our groups, we were talking about the terminologies that we use when describing our company to the world at large.

Victoria: How many consumers really know or care what design build is right.

Mark: I’m so glad you said that.

Victoria: You know, there’s it’s.

Mark: You have to.

Victoria: Define. Yeah. We throw it around like crazy people throw don’t ever design build company. But what the heck’s. I mean, can’t you walk into Home Depot and have them draw a design on a napkin? Isn’t that design? And then they build it? Isn’t that design build? So yeah, you got to explain that you can’t just assume that people understand what your system is.

Mark: Which actually is a great segue. It’s borderline, it’s borderline pretentious. And then arrogance because you feel so much towards what you’re doing. As you know, I am not just a builder. I’m a design build. Right. And I completely respect that. And I think it’s spot on what you do. But other people don’t know that that difference to to them.

Mark: What is it? What does the homeowner care. Who’s the one that’s doing the design or what’s happening. They just focused on the end product. Can you deliver what I’m giving you a check for? That’s all they care and some people that that’s actually offensive because they consider I mean, I can think of two members off the top of my head right now that think of themselves as artists, not remodelers.

Victoria: Right.

Mark: And, you know, that’s great.

Victoria: As long as they make money.

Mark: Doing it right, as long as you make money doing it, you can be an artist all day, right? But you got to be profitable too.

Victoria: Yeah.

Mark: But, you know, if that’s what you’re thinking, then then you start to get a little defensive when people don’t appreciate you for, you know, because they don’t know. So anyway, yeah, actually great segue into my next what the heck were they thinking where I think because of the arrogance thing, yes, I’ve run into this a couple times now, and this is something that okay, specifically with our podcast, we reach out.

Mark: We’ve had people reach out to us saying, hey, we’d love to be on your show. I’d love to be on your show. I think I have a lot to offer your listeners. I’ve had their their representatives reach out. I think, you know, John Doe is a great prospect to be a and a guest on your podcast. We have sought out people that we think would be great guests, that we want our listeners to hear from.

Mark: And it’s that situation where this rears its ugly head. We’ve reached out to people. We have a process we use as as any company should. As anyone listening on here, you should have all your processes set up that you follow.

Victoria: It’s all our clients hear us say it over and over.

Mark: All day long. Right? And we have a process. And the process evolved in the life cycle of this podcast. And we started off just kind of may come on to the podcast. We’re going to have some chit chat. It evolved because some of the guests we’ve had or our members or other nonmembers, but they’re business owners and they’re not professional speakers.

Mark: They’re not doing the podcast circuit, they’re not doing any of that stuff. So there’s some trepidation. There’s a little bit of anxiety about being on a show. You know what’s going to happen? Are you are you willing to edit if I if I sound stupid.

Victoria: Are you going to try to stop me with hard questions, you.

Mark: Know, and all this stuff? And so as the the first six months, we developed this process, which was built to ease all that and allow the guests, future guests to submit five or 4 or 5 questions that they think we should ask them. Hey, it gives us an opportunity to understand what angle they’re looking for, what they can do, and we never really stick to the questions, which is the funniest part.

Mark: We riff off of it. And then of course, you get the follow up questions which dive deeper into it. But by that point, they’re comfortable because you’ve hit them with questions they were expecting. And then when you have follow up questions that they’re not expecting, but they’re already into their the rhythm. So now they’re just talking to you like we’re just chatting right.

Mark: And everything’s good. The process has been great every once in a while we get the arrogant guest, and we’ve had two in the past month and a half, and this is one of those. What were you thinking people to me. And they just refuse. It’s it’s flat out been one of them was the the secretary or you I guess you don’t say the assistant or whatever.

Victoria: The person.

Mark: The person that handles the the person’s account and just said, oh, so-and-so does not fill out forms.

Victoria: And he will not follow your process.

Mark: But he will not follow your process. And we had another one where I reached out and I reached out on LinkedIn because I thought, hey, I think you’d be a great guest on our podcast. You got some great I’m seeing your posts. This is good stuff. You want to come on? Oh, yeah. I’d love to be on. Okay, great.

Mark: I want to send you a time trade link. You can schedule with our studio time. We only have certain time on the studio. And I’ll also send you the guest preparation form. And I sent it off and nothing. Never got the submission. Never get anything. And then I’m thinking, okay, he’s not he’s going to be a no show.

Mark: And then about 15 minutes before the podcast is scheduled, I get an email from him and he’s like, I never got, a zoom link or anything. How am I supposed to get on where we’re meeting? So I emailed him back saying, well, you never did anything. You didn’t do any of this stuff. And part of the process, it’s automated.

Mark: As soon as you submit the form, you get the link to the to the zoom. It’s all automated. Everything’s built in. So you didn’t do it. And his response was, what do you think? Oh, I don’t do forms, I don’t I’m not going to answer questions. I, I mean, actually, to be honest, here it is. To be honest, I’m not a big fan of doing an intake form for guests, which requires them to fill out a bunch of fields.

Mark: I started to fill it out, but I stopped and started working on something else and just never went back to it.

Victoria: Oh well.

Mark: It’s you know what I call BS on. I don’t fill out forms. I don’t do this. I don’t follow your process. All that anybody ever does. And whether it’s for being on our podcast or whether it’s for, hiring you to be their remodeler or whatever the process is, you know, going to buy someone’s car, whatever, it doesn’t matter.

Mark: Saying you’re not willing to follow that person’s process or that company’s process is always 100% saying, I am better than you. I’m on a higher level than you, and I will not come down to your level.

Victoria: Do you certainly are not the partnerships that you’re looking for in the client you want to work with, or the podcast guest you want to work with?

Mark: Because I guarantee you. And one of these was admittedly one of the two that I’m talking about. One of them was this big, huge corporation. Okay, it’s big and I get it. They are bigger than me. But you know what? Don’t ever say never. Because I can promise you, whether it’s that a company or that big guy or the C person that hasn’t done it to me yet, every one of them will fill out a form.

Mark: If that opportunity is big enough.

Victoria: Stephen Colbert, call them. I think they’d fill out a form, right?

Mark: NBC Nightly News, we want you to be on a on a on tonight’s episode.

Victoria: Rachel Maddow.

Mark: You’ve got to submit there. Right? Right. Exactly. I’ve got you think any one of these people would say, no, we don’t do forms.

Victoria: I don’t think so.

Mark: And that’s the thing. And this is something to keep in mind always. There’s always going to be someone that’s below you in some social status of some sort, and you’re going to be the bigger guy. Don’t forget your roots. Don’t forget where you came from. Everybody started at ground zero and everybody is growing at different rates. And don’t don’t ever think of yourself as too good for someone else.

Mark: I call total BS on. I don’t do forms. Yeah, they would have done. I’m telling you right now, NBC Nightly News wanted to do an exposé or whatever magic thingy. They would have filled out a 20 page survey gizmo. Yeah.

Victoria: No kidding. You know, I think that’s one of the things that’s been a philosophy. And again, I learned it from my old business partner, Linda Case. But we do not burn bridges. I don’t think I have ever acted, I hope, bigger than anybody else or that anybody here has. We we talked to everybody. We try to help her.

Victoria: We never will burn a bridge by saying we’re too good to do something. I hope that we never have. I hope we never will. And I think that’s the way that our listeners should be thinking about it, too. You never know.

Mark: Anyway, this is just what were you thinking, man? Stop it. Stop. Don’t forget your roots. Don’t forget where you came from. And you knew better than anyone else. And there’s always a bigger fish. Actually, that’s from Star Wars. There’s always a bigger fish. Yeah, well, some people out there get it anyway, that’s that’s that’s another one for me.

Mark: Oh, God. That drove me nuts. Unbelievable.

Victoria: Yeah. Well, there I’m sure everybody out there has examples as well. So just keep in mind when you are out there dealing with the public dealing with people that you don’t know, you know, you’re rushed, you’re busy, you might not want to follow the process. You might not want to respond to every person. You just don’t know. So our recommendation is treat everybody wonderfully.

Victoria: Don’t burn bridges and, you know, do the best you can with whatever you have. And if it’s not a good fit for you, be polite about turning them away.

Mark: I agree and just don’t annoy me.

Victoria: Yeah.

Mark: Because otherwise I’ll go on and do a podcast about it. Yeah. No. Yeah, yeah. I don’t know. It’s just it drives me crazy. All the work we do, all the effort we put into building our brands, building our personal brands, building our company.

Victoria: You’re talking about our clients. Just listen.

Mark: In general. Just. Yes. All of us. Everybody. You. Everybody listening. All the work we put into this stuff. And in the blink of an eye, you can screw it up because you’re either being making assumptions, thinking you’re better than someone. It’s just it’s. And I get it. It’s an easy it’s a slippery slope and it’s easy to fall into.

Mark: But be careful. Be cautious. You don’t know. Pay attention. It’s oh my gosh, what were they thinking? It’s so frustrating. Yes, yes. Well this was good. It was cathartic. At least I was able to just get this off my chest.

Victoria: Yes.

Mark: Even if nobody listens to it, it felt better.

Victoria: Hey, a couple of good examples there though, I thought. Good examples of bad examples.

Mark: We’re all.

Victoria: Going to focus on the good one forward.

Mark: Right? What not to do.

Victoria: There you go.

Mark: We could call it. We could have done this episode. Just what not to do.

Victoria: Yes.

Mark: Yeah I guess we’ll decide after what I like.

Victoria: What were they thinking? What were.

Mark: They thinking? Okay, we’ll stick with it. Yeah, well, this has been fun for me. It’s now five something on a Friday, so I got to get home and it’s ready for a long weekend of forgetting about all that. So, glad you were here. I’m Mark Kerry.

Victoria: And I’m Victoria Downing. See you next week.