Mark: Today on PowerTips Unscripted, we talked with Spencer Powell, CEO of Builder Funnel. The most common marketing mistake I encounter is a focus on tactics without regard for strategy. Stop picking random marketing tactics you hear at an event from the latest guru, and start with the strategic foundation. Spencer agrees, and he’s here to share, focusing on what matters most to your business so that you can use marketing to make more profit.

Mark: And we’ll hear all about it in just a minute. Come up and do this the old fashioned way. The two swords and maximum effort. Okay, guys. Let’s get out there and make a difference. All.

Victoria: I am Victoria Downing, and welcome to PowerTips Unscripted, where we talk about tips, tactics and techniques to help you build a strong, profitable remodeling company. And I’m here with my co-host, Mark Harari.

Mark: Good morning.

Victoria: How are you?

Mark: Very good. How are you doing today?

Victoria: Pretty good. It’s sunny outside. Beautiful day. And we get one of our favorite topics today. Marketing.

Mark: Yeah, it’s my favorite, you know that?

Victoria: I mean, there’s about five of us in here who have been, you know, either degrees in marketing or practicing marketing. And now we have a guest that does marketing. It’s awesome.

Mark: Well, everybody’s an expert in marketing.

Victoria: So they thinking, yeah, but I know that, you know, we’re focusing on our strategy because this week we’ve got a meeting. It’s all about developing, positioning statements and starting with strategy. Right.

Mark: Yeah it’s going to be good. Can’t wait to hear what Spencer has to say.

Victoria: Yeah I know. So let’s dive in, shall we?

Mark: Yeah. Jump in.

Victoria: Spencer Powell is the CEO of Builder Funnel and the author of the book The Remodelers Marketing Blueprint. Spencer began his marketing journey by helping his uncle’s remodeling division grow from 2 million to 10 million in four years, and now helps remodeling companies create sustainable, repeatable marketing plans. Hey, welcome, Spencer. Great to have you back.

Spencer: Hey. Glad to be here. Good to see you guys again.

Victoria: Yeah. And since then? Since the summit. A whole month or so,

Spencer: Yeah. Not too long. Yeah. It was, it was a good event.

Victoria: So, you know, I think one of the big questions that a lot of people have is, you know, really what is marketing strategy and how do you develop strategy versus just diving in on those tactics?

Spencer: Yeah, it’s a good question. And I think in marketing, just because there’s so many things you can do, it’s really easy to jump to tactics because you go to an event and you hear about SEO or you need to get Google reviews, or I need to have branding all over my trucks, and, you know, you just end up hearing about the things, and they’re very tangible.

Spencer: And so I think we get sucked into that. But, you know, strategy just at a basic level, is just figuring out like, hey, what am I going to do that’s going to lead me to my goal? And so it really starts with a goal in mind. And if you don’t have that goal in mind, it’s like the old saying, you know, if you, I’m just going to butcher.

Spencer: It’s all I want to. You guys do it. But it’s like, hey, if I want to, if I want to, you know, go somewhere, any path, I’ll do it. It’s like you’re just going to meander all over the place. And so if you if you have a very, you know, specific target, then you can start to think about, okay, how am I going to get to that target?

Spencer: And maybe there’s still a few paths to get to that target, but you can think about which is maybe the most efficient path or, you know, one of those options look like one might be a more costly path, but a faster path and one might have less cost and might be slower, but then you can evaluate those and see what fits, you know, your budget and your timeline and all those things that kind of go into the end goal.

Spencer: So that’s really what strategy is at the basic level.

Victoria: So, you know, you’ve worked a lot or modelers give me some examples of the goals that you’ve heard them set in order to start to get the whole ball rolling.

Spencer: Yeah, a very common goal, for whatever reason in the remodeling space is I want to double sales this year. It’s always double I don’t know what it is or where it’s double over two years, but a lot of the times you’re talking to somebody in there at two and for whatever reason, they want to go to 4 million or they’re at three and they want to go to six.

Spencer: It’s 1 to 2 is very common, you know, and and I hear that doubling and I think, that’s a good place to start. You know, you have to figure out like, okay, what do I want? I think that’s the big goal. You get stuck around revenue and you’re not focused on profit, which, again, is the whole kind of side.

Spencer: Tangent discussion. But yeah, a lot of times it’s to double as a goal. I hear commonly.

Victoria: It was revenue mainly the goal.

Spencer: Oh is it that is the most common one. I hear the other one that I hear, which I actually really like hearing, which is, hey, I’m I’ve got to 3 million. I’d actually like to stay there. I just want to improve my project mix like I want better leads. I want better projects. That’s a great goal too. You don’t have to grow revenue because if you stay at 3 million but you get better margin projects, you might double or triple your net profit.

Spencer: You know, if you actually. And so, I think we, we oftentimes if we it’s interesting thinking about this like we get sucked into tactics and I’m like okay, well let’s pack it up and let’s think about the goal. And then we get sucked into revenue. It’s like, well is revenue really the goal? And then it’s like, well, no, it’s probably profit.

Spencer: Well why is profit the goal? And then it kind of all comes back to what you want personally as an owner. Is it freedom? Is it. You know, you know growth. Is it systems, is it, you know, whatever. But a lot of times most people just want more freedom, make more money, work less.

Victoria: Say, like our tagline, right?

Spencer: There you go.

Victoria: So if, let’s say let’s pick one, right. So you have that goal, like one of the ones I always like to hear, it’s always kind of fun. Is I want to focus in on my sweet spot projects. You know, those projects that are the most profitable, the easiest for them to do, the ones that they fail every single time.

Victoria: So what are the how do you develop a strategy around that?

Spencer: Yeah, it’s a good, good, example. So let’s just say that somebody was doing 3 million and they’re like, okay, only like 20% of my projects were in my sweet spot, you know, last year, you know, maybe it’s, kitchen plus, you know, projects or like, I like, you know, kind of a multiroom thing, but it’s kind of starts with the kitchen, you know, and that’s you know, 150 to 250 grand or something.

Spencer: And that’s that’s a great project for us. So. Okay, you got, you know, three of those projects last year, whatever it was. So the first thing I would do is look at, okay, what produced those projects in the past and try to go back at least a couple of years, because in that instance, maybe only have 2 or 3 examples from the prior year.

Spencer: So if you can get some past data, that’s going to be a great indicator of what will come into the future. So was it referrals? Was it Google search, was it, job site signs from being in the neighborhood? And then it led you to 1 or 2 other project, you know, what was it really that got you those projects?

Spencer: And I always ask people, as one of the first questions I always ask is when they say they’re trying to hit a goal and something is working. I just say, can you double that? Can you just do more of what’s working? And I think that’s the first place to look. And so if you can say, okay, my goal next year is to get 40 or 50% of my projects in my sweet spot.

Spencer: I’m trying to like move that metric up. Well, if you can, you know, double the amount of sweet spot projects from last year, you’ll be pretty close to that. And it might just be around doing the same things that led you to that. And then I think you can take that step two, which is, okay, what am I going to do in terms of my content strategy?

Spencer: Well, maybe I should be talking about, things related to kitchens or related to first floor remodels or, you know, and then it goes down the rabbit hole of like, open spaces and design trends and all the things that that type of, project or person that’s going to do that project is going to be researching and thinking about.

Spencer: And so it will dictate your content strategy, it’ll dictate your paid ad strategy depending on keywords. It’ll dictate which neighborhoods you want to focus on, because that’s household value, that’s income, all of those types of things. But you can’t get to those if you just skip ahead and you don’t think about what you actually want to attract.

Victoria: So talk to me a little bit about measurements and tracking. I know that there’s a lot of companies that just don’t do as good a job at that, but is that an important thing in this whole goal strategy, tick tick process?

Spencer: Yeah for sure. And I know you guys are really good about, requiring your members to track and report on that tracking. And that’s really good because otherwise a lot of times it wouldn’t happen. And I just think about the example we just talked through, you know, if you’re going, okay, I want to get more of my sweet spot projects.

Spencer: Well, if you hadn’t tracked where your sweet spot projects had come from in the past, you’re flying blind. Now you’re going, well, I don’t know how I’m going to replicate that in the future. And so you’re basically starting again from ground zero if you’re not tracking and you’re just going to be guessing and and at the beginning, you have to do some of that.

Spencer: And so the more the way I see marketing is over time, you want to get it so that it’s more and more calculated and less guesswork. But there’s always going to be some element of experimentation with marketing. There’s new social media networks, there’s new tactics that come up. And so you do have to have some of that. But the goal is to have, you know, as little of that as possible.

Spencer: So you can lean on the data to make decisions. Then you don’t get emotion tied up in it. And all these other things. You can just go, okay, let’s look at the facts. This is what produces the best projects. Great. Let’s keep doing it. Or let’s try and do more of it and see if that pans out. And that’s a good like strategic bet.

Spencer: There.

Victoria: So now if you’re going to take your overall marketing budget, you said, okay, we want to keep doing a lot of what we’ve been doing. The it says we’re going to double. We’re going to use the same strategies. We’re going to add. So so how much of the budget do you think that a company should leave aside for sort of experimentation with new stuff?

Spencer: Yeah, I think it a little bit depends on, kind of the personality of the owner and the company, you know, like some people really believe in and love marketing and so they might experiment more. But I think if you can be between 10 and 20%, that’s pretty good. You know, lean most of your budget into things that were tried and true, those types of things.

Spencer: And then, yeah, experiment a little.

Mark: Say, Spencer, with the marketing plan you’re talking about basically an annual plan, right? Strategic for the coming year. Yeah. When do you think they should start developing the the coming year strategic plan?

Spencer: Good question. It depends on how fast you can move. But I would say probably the the early part of Q4 is a good, you know, time to start thinking about that. We all know that the end of the year, crunch time and stuff comes up and, you know, you’re trying to close everything out for the year. So I think you want you’ve got three quarters worth of data from that year.

Spencer: And things are starting to slow down heading into winter. So it’s a good time to start thinking about that. But you don’t want to be doing that in January when you’re already rolling. You know you want to have your plan set. So in case you had to do anything you can hit the ground running in January.

Mark: So okay, so then I got to follow up with and and I see, I see quite a few marketing plans from some of our members who, send some things out or listeners of the show and that type of thing. I’m curious, what do you see as some of the biggest mistakes when, when a marketing plan is being developed.

Spencer: When it’s being developed?

Mark: Yeah. When building the marketing plan.

Spencer: Yeah. One is starting too late. Two is not not looking at the data. And I think and I want to emphasize that one again, even though we kind of touched on it earlier because we get caught up in emotion and we make these decisions. You know, I just went to this conference and this guy was talking about SEO or whatever, and I gotta, I gotta do that.

Spencer: It’s like, and from my perspective, like, probably you do need to be doing SEO, but let’s not just do it to do it. Let’s do it with a strategy and in line with the goal. And so I think, not looking at data, not looking at past performance, and not really, I would say a lot of people just pick that goal, like, okay, let’s go for we’re going from 2 to 4 million.

Spencer: Okay, great. Well, we’re going to need to do some marketing. So let’s, let’s try this, magazine ad or let’s try some Google ads. And I feel like, just that statement alone. Let’s try this right party. Feels like you’re just kind of, we’re going to maybe test this for a little bit. And, I don’t actually think it’s going to work.

Spencer: And, you know, there is some element of, I’m going to do this and this is going to produce a result, and I’m going to make sure it produces a result and then give it some time and actually push on it hard. You’ll probably be more successful with anything versus what you’ve done in the past. And then if it if it really doesn’t pan out and it’s not working, your cost for lead numbers are too high or whatever it is, then yeah, deviate.

Spencer: But, those are the biggest ones. Start too late and they don’t look at data and then, they don’t actually line up the things with the goal. And, you know, you set the goal, but then you end up just picking a bunch of random stuff.

Victoria: Anyway, that sounds so scientific. They don’t line up the things with the goal, but I.

Spencer: Know I try to keep it simple, but it’s like, what are the things that we’re doing? And are they heading towards the goal?

Mark: We shoot for the technical jargon here on this. Yeah.

Spencer: You know, I like to contribute to the technical jargon.

Victoria: Yes. Thank you. So okay, we’re coming up on a new year right. And so people should be certain if they should be in the midst of or starting their, marketing plan. What are some easy steps that Remodelers can take right now to get ready for 2022?

Spencer: Yeah. So I would say step one is kind of look at where you’re forecasting to end up this year, and then where do you want to be next year. And so what what does that look like. Is it a revenue target. Is there a profitability target. Is it a sweet spot project target like you mentioned Victoria. Like are we trying to get, you know, that most likely that is a sub goal of profitability.

Spencer: You want to get more of your projects in your sweet spot because you have better margins on them or, you know, they add to your time freedom or something like that. But think about the goal. And then look at this year in the year prior and see what you can glean from that and try to look at so we like to track metrics like where do our leads come from, you know, where do our customers come from, all of those types of things.

Spencer: But if you can actually break it down and look at specific customers, the ones that you really liked, and then track those back to the sources, that’s really where I would spend a lot of time and trying to figure that out. If you got some little project you like that was filler work or whatever, it was fine. Don’t put a lot of emphasis there.

Spencer: Really focus on where your best projects came from. And then that’s going to start to dictate, you know, what you do moving forward. It I don’t want to throw out any tactics because again, it depends on the goal. But you know, really I guess to provide an example would just be, hey, if you’re trying to double your revenue, and you’re also trying to increase the number of projects in your sweet spot, then I’d be looking at, okay, well, I probably need to increase my marketing spend because doubling is significant, and then I want to increase it more in the direction of the things that produced my good projects.

Spencer: So if Google Search did really well for you and referrals, then I might look at, okay, what am I doing to improve my content strategy in my SEO? And I’m going to focus it around my sweet spot projects like kitchens and you know, that whole process, the cost, the design, all the topics related to that and then, okay, referrals.

Spencer: How am I going to stay in touch with my past clients more frequently or in a more meaningful way so I can hopefully spur more of that? Or how can I get more Google reviews? Because that’s, you know, going to be an indication of people finding me and then seeing, oh, past clients. You know, we’re really happy with me.

Spencer: So those types of things. So you look at what’s worked and then you take that and you try to amplify that going forward.

Mark: Backtracking a little bit to when we were talking about tracking and measurement. That’s, that’s definitely an easier situation when you’ve got some specific, say, lead magnet on a website and they download it and you can track the numbers and how many downloads or how many emails are being opened. That type of thing. What’s your advice or just general feelings about campaigns that aren’t so directly more of like a, a branding type of a campaign?

Mark: Like maybe I sponsor the Little League team in the, in the community and I’ve, you know, I buy their shirts and those kinds of things where it’s more, just get your name out there and support in the community. How do you kind of feel about those and any input you can give about that type of component of marketing that isn’t so directly trackable?

Spencer: I love this question. I’ve actually been thinking about it a lot lately, because I’ve gone through different cycles in my marketing career where I’ve loved or hated branding is the most. I mostly I’ve hated it because of what you just mentioned is really tough to track, but I am a big believer in it and I think I started my journey not believing in brand and I was like, if you can’t track it, like, what’s the point?

Spencer: You know, but obviously you can look around the world and see brands, that are very successful. And so, you know, anecdotally it works. And I and I think what I’ve come down to is with branding, there’s a couple of components. One is you’re going to ask on the phone, you know, how did you hear about us?

Spencer: And and dig a little deeper sometimes. And whatever they tell you that’s great. And then say okay. And then maybe ask a follow up question. But a lot of times they’ll say, oh, I see your signs. Or they might even say like, well, I think you guys sponsor our team or whatever it is. Sometimes they won’t, right? So you’re going to miss some of that.

Spencer: But if you over periods of time, if you track that, you’ll actually hear it a few times and you go, okay, like the people have said, they see our signs or they see our trucks everywhere. And of course, you’re not seeing them everywhere. They’re seeing them a few times in their area because you’ve targeted and you’re spending time working in those neighborhoods.

Spencer: But, that’s good anecdotal evidence that those things are supporting what you want to do. And so I think that’s one part of it. And then the other part of it is a little bit of that. I look at it as long term lead gen. So normally we think of lead gen as I do this campaign, I tracked it and it resulted in X.

Spencer: You know, I spent you know, ten grand. And I got however many projects out of it. Okay done. But then branding is okay. I’m going to do these things every year for the next five years. And I know that what I get in five years, I’m probably going to hear people saying, I see you everywhere more often than I did in year one, and there’s a little bit of that leap of faith and a little bit of trust in your strategy, right?

Spencer: That, hey, I want to work in these neighborhoods. I’m going to commit to door hangers, signs and trucks, and I’m going to do that for five years, even if the first year I only hear like once somebody saw our signs, because you just know, like people are going to continue to see these. I’m going to work in this neighborhood.

Spencer: It’s part of my long term strategy. And so I feel like there’s a little bit of that with branding, where it’s just extending the runway. So by the time you hit your five, your cost per lead is actually a lot lower than it was in year one. You could have the same spend every year, but you get that compounding effect of visits and, you know, people seeing you over and over again.

Mark: Absolutely, I love it. That’s great. I was dying to ask you that because you’re so, so numbers oriented. So getting you in the hot seat. I wanted to throw that one at you.

Spencer: That’s good. The branding thing, it’s tricky. Right? Like, because there isn’t a perfect answer to, like. Yeah, for your brand, and then it will just magically make you the known brand. Like, you have to have that strategy piece and the long term consistently. Like if you think about all the big brands, they’ve been there for years and years and most, most of them decades, but they’ve just been consistent.

Mark: Yeah. Let’s get all right. So I got one more question for you. Are you ready for our lightning round.

Spencer: Let’s do it. Oh and now here’s the reminders. Advantage lightning round. It’s a craft.

Mark: All right. We’re putting 60s on the clock. Here we go. What is your favorite business book and why.

Spencer: Who not how. Faster path to getting to the end result.

Mark: If you weren’t a marketer, what do you think you’d be doing.

Spencer: Playing beach volleyball?

Mark: What do you not very good at?

Spencer: Details.

Mark: Your room, your desk or your car? Which would you clean first?

Spencer: Room.

Mark: What’s something you refuse to share?

Spencer: My food.

Mark: If you can have it. Theme song. What would it be?

Spencer: Theme song from Gladiator.

Mark: This.

Victoria: Good one. Hey, Spencer, this has been great. Thank you so much for getting out. And, you know, sharing some of your some of your expertise with us. Now, before I let you go, however. Well, first of all, how would people learn more about you if they wanted to learn more about you and build this fun?

Spencer: Yeah. Well, we’re doing, we do a lot of strategy plans. So I would say if you’re interested in that, head over to builder funnel.com/blueprint. And if you haven’t picked up a copy of the book, just head over to Amazon and get the remodel or marketing blueprint.

Victoria: All right. Great. Okay, so now before I let you go, I want you to share your five words of wisdom with our listening audience and why they resonate with you.

Spencer: Stop playing checkers. Play chess, and that resonates with me because it’s very in line with strategy. And, I actually don’t play a lot of chess, but I like the idea of playing chess in business and thinking, you know, about several moves ahead and, yeah, like weathering storms and, you know, thinking about competition, but how to play for the long game.

Spencer: And I feel like chess is kind of that, you know, play for the long game, whereas checkers is just, hey, make a move and see what happens.

Victoria: All right. Hey, great. That’s awesome. Thank you so much, Spencer. We appreciate you being here. And I’m sure we will see you here again.

Spencer: Yeah. Thanks for having me.

Mark: Thanks, Spencer.

Victoria: Well, that was pretty interesting, wasn’t it?

Mark: Yes, yes.

Victoria: It’s, you know, what I think is fun to think about is the whole concept that he was talking about. Right? The end in chess, you’re thinking several moves ahead.

Mark: Yeah, I’m.

Victoria: Trying to get my head around that. I mean, it makes sense, but I’m thinking about our business. And what would those moves be?

Mark: Yeah. It’s, Do you play chess?

Victoria: I have played chess. I certainly have never played it. Well.

Mark: Yeah. Oh, yeah. Well, that’s. I mean, it’s an amazing game, but, you know. Yeah, you got to think at least 5 or 6 moves at least imagine the 5 or 6 moves out because otherwise what are you doing. Just move in a pawn for the sake of moving the pawn. Doesn’t make any sense. You kind of have to start building the quote unquote attack.

Mark: Right? So, yeah. So I love the analogy because, yeah, checkers is just I think it is more, just, hey, let’s just throw some tactics at a wall and see what sticks. It’s funny because hearing everything he said to me, he and I agree wholeheartedly on that. I was really curious to hear his opinions on on branding solely because he’s so, so numbers oriented.

Mark: He’s such a data driven, data driven, mind. I love data, but I tend to kind of be more, creative and, long term goal type orientations, type of thinking. But yeah, you know, I was just on a podcast last week and it was a live one. They were asking questions, and it’s so funny because I was talking a lot about some of the stuff Spencer’s talking about, and still the questions coming from the audience where specific to tactics, what do you think of Twitter?

Mark: Do you think I should be doing more stuff on Facebook? And I just sit there, shake my head and say, well, it depends, what’s your strategy? And, you know, where are your customers? Where, where do they live? You know, so it’s you can sit there and it’s just I think one of these things that we got to continuously beat over everyone’s head start with strategy first.

Mark: Yeah. I want to thank Spencer for, for coming in, helping me spread the word on this. It’s a critical, critical thing, and it’s the time. Now, start thinking about your 2022 year, 2022 marketing plan and strategy. So thanks, Spencer, for taking the time to share that with us. And we want to thank you for listening week in and week out.

Mark: I am Mark Harari.

Victoria: And I’m Victoria Downing. See you next time.