Mark: Today on PowerTips Unscripted, we talk to Steve Anderson, author of The Culture of Success ten Natural Laws for Creating the Place Where Everyone Wants to work in a low unemployment economy. Recruiting and retaining the best talent is a constant effort. Steve is here to share the secrets to develop one of the most powerful competitive advantages for your business.

Mark: That is nearly impossible for anyone else to copy, and they can’t compete with it either. Sounds good, but we’ll hear all about it in just a minute.

Victoria: Hi, I’m Victoria Downing and welcome to PowerTips Unscripted where we talk about tips, tactics and techniques to help you build a strong, profitable remodeling company. And I’m here with my co-host, Mark Harari.

Mark: You sure.

Victoria: Are. Hey, you. Mark, how you doing today?

Mark: I’m doing fantastic. You know why I’m doing fantastic.

Victoria: Why is that?

Mark: Because it’s Friday.

Victoria: Yeah, and it’s your birthday.

Mark: It’s my birthday today. How about that? It’s not going to be my birthday when this airs. But it’s okay.

Victoria: Yeah, but it is now. So we’ll just add that little air of celebration into the whole thing. Well, you know, so this is going to be a good one today.

Mark: It’s a very nice birthday present. Yeah. Because I love Steve Anderson. He’s a very smart, awesome guy to talk to and excited to think about what he’s going to share with us.

Victoria: You know, he gives us so much good stuff when we are with him at our peer group meetings, that it’s kind of fun to be able to bring him on to the show and let him talk to all of you, all of our all of our listening audience.

Mark: Yeah. For sure.

Victoria: So shall we get it started?

Mark: We shall.

Victoria: Author, entrepreneur and philanthropist Stephen J. Anderson has worked with tens of thousands of professional and business people to grow and expand their businesses. Today, he’s going to share secrets for developing a competitive advantage nearly impossible for any competitor to copy. And we’re going to hear all about that. So welcome, Steve.

Steve: Victoria. Well, thank you and excited to be here with you. Thanks for having me today.

Victoria: Certainly, you know, some of our listening audience might remember that you were one of the speakers at our summit a few years back and did a fantastic fantabulous job.

Steve: That’s right. In fact, that was at a gorgeous venue, as I recall, and I enjoyed being with everybody very much.

Victoria: Good, good. Well, so now we get to do a whole lot of new members that are part of this. I’m going to hear from you for about the first time. So this is a great way to start. So you wrote a book, The Culture of Success and tell me a little bit about how you got started on that and and what the culture of success really is.

Steve: So we work, we work with businesses, all over the country, all over the world, and doing much the same as what you do at Remodelers Advantage, which is trying to create systems that can be leveraged to grow the business and help the business be more successful. And one of the biggest disap tions is when you sit down and look at your own profit and loss statement, you have income and you have expense.

Steve: You have assets and liabilities. And one of the biggest mistakes is looking at that profit and loss statement. And one of the expense items is staffing. In fact for most businesses. So it’s one of the biggest expenses. And in business, if we’re not careful, we spend a lot of time talking about how to manage staff expense and what I prefer to do.

Steve: If I could reorganize the financial statements in a business. I’d love to take that expense line and move it from the income and expense statement over to the balance sheet and put it in the asset column, because it is the most important asset than any business has. It is the most difficult thing to copy. It’s the most difficult.

Steve: It is the the biggest compelling advantage that almost any business has if they know how to manage it correctly. And so here’s how we define culture. So culture is the combination of priorities and processes. For starters let me I can expand on this. And let’s talk about those two words real quick. Priorities are what the things that matter to you the most.

Steve: So for you to take your values, your beliefs and prioritize those what matters most to you as an entrepreneur, as a business owner, as a business, because that’s what drives the business. So that’s the first thing you have to define is what are your priorities? What are your beliefs? What matters most to you? Okay, so priorities. And then number two is processes.

Steve: Okay. So then what are the systems that you put in place in your business to execute on those priorities that reflect the things that you believe in the most. So those are two critical components of culture priorities and processes. Now you can and I’ll finish that definition just a moment. So those two things. Every business has priority and processes either by default or by definition.

Steve: So if it happens by default it just kind of happens. You don’t really focus on it. It just kind of evolves versus doing it on purpose and defining those in writing and clearly looking at what you believe in and the systems that you put in place to execute. And so priorities and processes and then how the people in the organized nation act on those two things every day.

Steve: Okay. So how did the people in the organization act on the values, the priorities and on the processes. So priorities, processes and then execution, how the people execute on those things every day. Those things. That’s what defines your culture. So for us, what we found is that, you know, every organization has a culture. Those they just kind of evolves and it happens by default.

Steve: We hold that it should happen by definition that you work on it. You create a culture by design not by default. And there are specific things you can do to make that happen.

Victoria: So what when you’re talking about an organizational culture, what is one of the most overlooked parts?

Steve: So, one of the things where I like to start in any development process, before we even get to the action part, is I go drill all the way down to what are the truths? I call them natural laws that make everything work. So, everything that I do starts with some truth or some principle. And then we build on those principles.

Steve: We build out the systems and and the things to, to take advantage of those natural. Let me share one with you. That is in the at the core of culture. So I called the law of emotion and the law of emotion says that we make decisions emotionally first, and then we justify that emotional decision with logic in that order.

Steve: Now there’s a ton of science behind this that proves it, that that we are wired first emotionally. It’s it’s a defense mechanism that we have as human beings. So we make decisions emotionally, we justify it with logic. And we’re constantly doing this work. We’re constantly trying to justify why we’ve done what we’ve done, or why we feel the way that we feel, even if we’re doing it consciously or unconsciously.

Steve: It’s going on all the time. So quick example of this. There there was a, a process that evolved several years ago, started in New York City. It was called a thing called speed dating. That’s not dating on drugs. This was this was an efficient way for young, single professionals who did not have time to date, an efficient way for them to vet prospects in a very short period of time so they wouldn’t have to waste a lot of time with somebody.

Steve: They didn’t they weren’t really interested in. So this is a pre this is pre-internet pre app. So the system was that they design was they’d have these events. They ran a backroom at a restaurant. They’d invite a group of people. They’d set up banquet tables. Guys on one side girls on the other. They spent about six minutes talking to the person in front of them, and then they’d switch six minutes with the next person.

Steve: They do that 10 to 12 times, and then they were given a ballot. They got to vote for the person they wanted to spend more time with. So if the votes matched. So if your vote matched someone else’s vote, then it’s a date, right? So in about an hour you got the opportunity to stack 10 to 12 people.

Steve: So they speeded. So it gained a tremendous amount of popularity. It still is very popular today. It’s even better and turned into an app or apps. And so the sociologist got involved. And one of the things that they determined is they studied this process is that the decision that most people were making within the first six seconds did not change after six minutes.

Steve: So in other words, they made an initial gut decision, consciously or subconsciously, and then they spend the rest of the time trying to justify why they felt the way they did. Okay, we made a decision emotionally, and then we and we try and justify why we feel the way we do. So one of the most important aspects of culture, let’s just dial that back now, is that law, the culture, by and large, we can we can put the building blocks in it.

Steve: But at the end of the day, the culture is how your team and the people that interact with your team, how they feel about your organization. So how do the people that work with you? How do they feel about your company? How do your customers feel about the interaction? And and every time that they do business with you, it’s an emotional thing.

Steve: They would never describe it that way. But at the end of the day, that’s really what’s going on, is you people like the culture. Do they like themselves better when they’re interacting with you? Or every time there’s interaction and your your action, does their stomach turn into knots and they go and enjoy the interaction culture is, at the end of the day, how people feel about your organization and doing business with you on an ongoing basis.

Steve: So if you recognize that, for starters, that intangible that we can make tangible that that that is the reason that people repeat and refer, you have to deliver on the promise. You have to do what you say you’ll do and deliver a good product. And beyond that, then it is the reason that people repeat and refer and keep coming back and tell everybody about you.

Steve: Is that intangible culture that you’ve created in your organization?

Mark: Steve, I love everything you were just saying there. It’s the law of emotions is a huge piece of the marketing pie as well, right? It’s one of the biggest mistakes I see people try to do with their marketing is just give facts and logic based reasons to make decisions, and it just doesn’t fly there either. So I wanted to dive in real quick.

Mark: How what suggestions do you have for for creating a more compelling culture then.

Steve: So here’s, here’s the biggest gap is, like I said before, you either have a culture by default or you have it by design. And and I vote for doing it by design. Now, we talked about priorities and processes. Most every organization that I’ve ever dealt with and works with, they have policies and procedures. They have an employee manual, they work on their systems and all those things are contributing factors to the culture.

Steve: I’d like to suggest an additional piece, and I’m going to be very specific here on what I’m going to challenge everyone to do. And it is something that we rarely see in an organization before we work with them. So let me let me give this in context, the case study. So I got a couple of hobbies.

Steve: One, I love speed. Not the drug, but going fast. So I love to ride motorcycles. I love speed on the water, so I love to wakeboard and water ski and and and water surf and one of my favorite hobbies is I love to collect organizations, so I love to find organizations that do things remarkably well and then figure out how they do what they do that can be copied in other organizations, can.

Steve: So this I’m going to share with you a fascinating, organizational case study that is an example of one of the most remarkable organizational turnarounds, perhaps in history can. So this is an organization that had gone into what I call multi-generational decline. They’ve been they’ve been around for a long time. And things had just gotten progressively worse. So in an effort to turn the organization around, new leadership was put in place.

Steve: And one of the very first things the new leadership did was they codified the new culture. In other words, they defined what they wanted the new organizational culture to be. And they put it in writing, and they were very simple cultural rules that they put in place. So, for example, one of the first rules was follow the leader.

Steve: In other words, we’re going to put an organization in place. And for the organization to be successful, everybody needs to support the structure that we put in place. That doesn’t mean you always have to agree with some, but you have to subscribe to the organization that we put in place. Another rule was dump your junk, meaning we’re going to leave the old organization behind.

Steve: We’re moving forward with a new culture, and a new vision. So you got to leave the old stuff behind. We got to move ahead. Another one was respect. Others roles and responsibilities. We all have roles and responsibilities. We got a place. You got it. You got to respect that. You have to, support it. Another one was show up.

Steve: Show up for the important stuff. We have events. We have things that we put in place, and. And those events are like glue that holds the organization together and so forth. So there were a number of these rules that they put in place. They put them in writing, and then they reinforced them on a regular basis. And so those rules then were responsible for one of the biggest organizational turnarounds in history, probably one of the most written about most famous organizations in history that almost went extinct.

Steve: So what was the organization? It was the children of Israel was an entire nation, the nation of Israel. You’ve you’ve read about it was written up in a very famous book, kind of boring cover, but it.

Speaker 3 Was a big.

Steve: Who was the leader? The leader was Moses, one of the one of the most written about CEOs in history. Take the religion out of it for a moment. Just look at it as an organization. What were the rules or the rules? Were the Ten Commandments?

Steve: The Ten Commandments were the cultural boundaries, the rules that were put in place early on that then enabled that culture to grow and survive. So let’s just look at those for just a minute. I mentioned a couple of what was the first commandment. And I remember this is the Sunday school lesson first year. Right. So the first, the first commandment was no other gods before me, right?

Steve: In other words, it was one leader, one guy in charge. They had come out of a culture that was steeped in polytheism. They had a God for everything. And the God of the sun, the moon, the star of the day, the night. So this was a concept. Well, you know, we seen pretty basic in their day. This was a core concept to say, okay, one leader, another when it was no idol worship.

Steve: What was that about? That was about leaving the junk behind, leaving the old culture behind, because in Egypt they worshiped all kinds of idols, so to say, no idol worship. That was a departure from the old culture. Leaving that behind. Okay, another one was honor the Sabbath day, right? Keep the Sabbath day holy. What was that? That was about showing up for the important stuff.

Steve: Every seven days we’re going to get together and we are going to reinforce the cultural values that are important to us, so we never forget them and so forth. There were ten of them. Okay, so here’s the takeaway. The takeaway is to define your culture in writing. You can’t define every aspect of it. But like was done in ancient Israel, what I highly recommend is that you sit down and that you you codify your culture.

Steve: So let me give you a quick personal example. Years ago, we moved the headquarters of our company about 350 miles from South Texas to Dallas-Fort worth. And there were a number of reasons for that. But we moved to Dallas Metroplex, so built a new office. Most of the team relocated. We hired some new team members, and so anybody that has built out new space and move, there’s kind of an air of excitement and starting over and, and, a new beginning.

Steve: So we built out our office. We’re in the first couple of weeks in this new space. We added and added some additional team members. And, and in that time, we had we had the habit of meeting every week, you know, Monday morning at 745. So, I’m there, you know, early, got everything organized, waiting for the team to arrive.

Steve: 745 no one’s there but me. 750 still waiting. First person showed up about 755. And I think we got started a little bit after eight. Okay, so, I got smoke coming.

Steve: Because this is a meeting. This supposed to start a 745. And before I said anything, I realized that there was probably a reason that everybody showed up when they did. And what was the reason? Well, obviously leadership. Hello? Me? I’ve not done a very good job of communicating the the cultural expectation. And so things are just kind of devolved, if you will.

Steve: So I didn’t say a word about it. We had our meeting and as soon as meeting was over, I left the office and I had my own, Mount Sinai experience. And I sat down and wrote out the equivalent of our own cultural Ten Commandments. Okay, so these were these. Actually, I was smart enough to keep it to ten at like 20.

Steve: These were behaviors, internal behaviors that I felt would define the kind of culture that I wanted to work in. So let me give you an example of one or a couple, maybe one that one of the four ones that was high on the list. In my first one, I eventually called the Culture Guide. So it said this be early.

Steve: Everyone wants to work with a team where everyone can rely on each other. It starts first thing every day. That’s why we all agree that when you’re early, you’re on time. When you’re on time, you’re late, and when you’re late, you’re lost.

Victoria: That’s done.

Steve: The new cultural expectation okay in writing was now if we’re going to if if the meeting schedule the 745, then the expectation is now that you arrive seven 3735 because we’re going to start at 745, not try and round everybody up, but that we start right at time. So the only way to be on time is to be early, right.

Steve: So that became know that that happened overnight. Nope. That took a while. And reinforcement and talking about it so that everybody understood what the cultural behavior was that was accepted. So now the culture is people get their early, they talk, they converse. We have plenty of of, you know, social time before we start our weekly meetings. So by the time, you know, the start time starts, we everybody is engaged, ready to go.

Steve: We go. They’re not they’re not wandering in. Let me give you another one. There is I don’t think there’s anything worse as a leader than trying to clean up stuff that one of your team members messed up. In other words, a customer calls and asks a question and a team member that you have doesn’t know the right answer.

Steve: So they just make something up.

Victoria: Right?

Steve: Oh, yeah. So a customer calls and says, is my remodeling work guaranteed? Well, you may have never talked about a guarantee, but you know what? They’re trying to keep the customer happy. So yeah it’s guaranteed right. And then something.

Speaker 3 Happens. Yeah.

Steve: Calls back and said, you know what Mark told me that the work was guaranteed and then leadership has to clean it up. Right. So that’s just a hypothetical example. So here’s here’s another cultural expectation. If you don’t know, don’t say, we strive to be honest in all of our interactions with each other and our customers, even when it’s not convenient.

Steve: Occasionally you may be asked about something you have never heard about or that you’re unclear about. If in doubt, just say you don’t know whether you’ll be happy to find out. Just tell the truth. That way you’ll never have to try and remember what you said. Hey, so that’s an example of now a behavioral expectation in the culture.

Steve: So in the original culture guide, there was like 20 of these, that I wrote out. So I wrote them all out. Then I went back to the team and we sat down and I said, okay, here’s the deal. As I’ve written out the kind of an organization that we’re I want to work and I want to share these with you, and I want to see if this sounds like the kind of an organization where you want to work.

Steve: And let’s added this together and let’s add to it. You can contribute. And then this will give us the framework for how we interact with each other, so that we can create the kind of place where we all want to come every day to work together. Yeah, here’s here’s what I would say about this. And this is going to sound a little bit like heresy.

Steve: So listen very carefully to I say, I don’t believe in having a customer centered organization or business. I do not believe the customer comes first. Now, here’s why that may sound. You may not you may choose not to broadcast this. I said that, but here’s been my experience is I’ve gone into so many customer centric businesses where everybody’s stumbling all over themselves, you know, to to serve the customer, where the internal culture is toxic, that it’s very difficult for anybody to concentrate on serving the customer because there’s so much background noise going on in the organization that they can’t focus on what they’re there to do.

Steve: So in in my book, customer comes second, right? So team comes first. Our culture, how we interact with each other, that’s the first customer. And then if that’s in place then it frees us up to serve our and customer.

Victoria: Makes sure that.

Steve: Culture comes first. So this in my mind becomes one of the most important things you can do is define your culture. And here’s my challenge is to create your own culture guide, write, sit down and and write it out. What your cultural expectations, what the behavioral expectations are of your team. This is not something that you see in a policy and procedure manual.

Steve: It’s not something that you see in an employee manual. It’s not something you ever see in an employee agreement. This is a separate standalone thing that defines your culture. We recommend that you hire with it so that when you leave before you extend an offer, you share your culture guide with a prospective team member and you say these.

Steve: This is the culture we strive for. We’re not we’re not perfect. We don’t always do it. That this is what we strive for. And if we invite you on to our team, this is what we would expect you to strive. We’d expect for you to strive for the same thing. I have never met anyone who didn’t want a great work environment, right?

Steve: I mean, you ask a prospective team member at prospective hire about the work invite. Everybody always says that they want a great work, but I’ve never met anybody. That work environment doesn’t matter to me. Just pay me well and abuse me, right? You never say that. Everybody wants great work environment. Yeah. Rarely do we talk about what it takes to have a great work environment.

Steve: What it takes to have a great culture. Culture starts with every individual on the team and how they interact. So creating a culture guide becomes one of the building blocks that will help you do that. You know, before we get done, I’d like to talk. I’d like to provide a resource that’ll help make it really easy to create your own culture guide.

Steve: But that is the challenge I give to everybody today. One of the most fundamental things you can do that will transform your culture and create a culture by design.

Victoria: Is it’s sort of bringing it into one’s consciousness, bringing into everyone’s consciousness. You got it. Okay, so what are some of the biggest culture mistakes that most organizations make?

Steve: Not paying attention to it, letting it letting it happen by default.

Victoria: Well, it’s not always a bad thing.

Steve: It’s letting it happen by default is okay if you’ve done it by design.

Steve: I entropy. So this is another natural law. It’s the second law of thermodynamics. It is a natural law of physics. Basically says that matter gravitates to its lowest, most disorganized state. Things come unraveled all the time, including cultures. They come unraveled. So unless you put energy into the system, it will come unraveled. So you can’t if if you have a culture by default, it will come unraveled because it will devolve to the lowest level team member whose behavior you allow.

Victoria: Okay.

Steve: So without boundaries, without definition, it will come unraveled.

Mark: Well, Steve, I’m about to unravel this entire interview with the Lightning Round.

Steve: And now here’s a reminder. It’s lightning round. It’s a drop.

Mark: Okay, here we go. What’s your favorite business book and why not?

Steve: One of my favorite business books is one that very few people have ever heard about. It was one that was given to me by one of my last, professors in business school. He retired the this last semester that I had him, and he gave his his, business library away, and I asked him to give me the best book he’d ever read.

Steve: The name of it is how I raised myself from failure to success through selling. I was written about the same time as, How to Win Friends and Influence People. He was a contemporary of Dale Carnegie’s, so there’s a lot of overlap between those two pieces of work. Everybody’s in sales. I’m a big believer in that.

Steve: You’re always selling something. It’s an easy read, and it’s, because of the source and where I originally got it from. It’s one of my one of my favorite books that the authors Frank venture.

Mark: If you weren’t an author, speaker, and entrepreneur, what do you think you’d be doing?

Steve: One of, you know, one of my passions is the engine that allows all of us to do what we do. And that engine is our health and well-being, which is under big threat today. It’s now estimated that that two thirds of America is obese. We we’re in big trouble. We’re one of the most advanced societies in the world, and we’re killing ourselves.

Steve: And there is so much work to be done in that area to get us back to wellness. It’s it’s a hobby of mine. I love it. There’s so much to learn and there’s so many, breaking things that are coming out almost every day that help us understand better about our health and wellness and well-being.

Mark: What do you not very good at?

Steve: So, so many things. In fact, I’m not good at much of anything. And that’s actually a fact. I, I’ve actually been tested for that, when I was junior in high school, my dad and an older brother and I went through the Johnson O’Connor Human Research Foundation’s aptitude test. I highly recommend it. I have I have recommended that to thousands of people.

Steve: It’s a day and a half worth of aptitude tests that give you some amazing insight and just kind of naturally what you’re good at. I took that as a junior in high school. And my, my results came back. I didn’t have anything above the 50th percentile. I’m good at nothing.

Steve: Average.

Steve: A guy. So answer your question, Mark. Yeah, it’s most things I’m not good at.

Mark: That’s awesome. What is your biggest pet peeve?

Steve: Ooh, my biggest pet peeve is poor customer service. Yes. I want to get me fired up, baby.

Mark: And who’s your favorite Disney princess?

Steve: Oh, my favorite Disney princess. Er, is is actually one that nobody’s ever heard of. It’s my six daughters.

Steve: Six daughters. The princesses.

Victoria: Steve, thank you so much for taking part in this. This is it’s great to have you on. But before we let you go, I want you to share your five words of wisdom with our listening audience.

Steve: Got it. So this one comes from one of my biggest mentors, my dad, who ran the largest ad agency in the western United States his whole career. I was weaned on a heavy diet of marketing and sales. He coined the phrase for one of his clients decades and decades ago. That has become the centerpiece of everything I do professionally.

Steve: And that phrase was where people mean everything.

Steve: And that really is the essence of a culture is culture is about making people your team members, your customers, making it the right kind of environment. So creating a kind of an organization where people mean everything, that’s awesome. I’ve given a challenge to everybody today to write your own culture. Yes. So here’s what I would recommend. I’ve included a copy of my original culture guide that I wrote in, my book entitled The Culture of Success to Naturalize for creating the place where everyone wants to work.

Steve: Anybody who has a copy of that book is welcome to plagiarize every word, culture guide that’s in the book. So because it’s, I think it’s a lot easier to edit than it is to create from scratch.

Victoria: Right. Help me to I.

Steve: Recommend sure be getting a copy of the book, take the culture guide that’s in there and then and you’ll find, I think a lot of things that your resonate with. Add to it, added it, and create your own culture guide so you can get a copy of the book and the Culture of Success book.com. So the Culture of Success book.com, you can order that in either in print electronically, or you can get an audio version of it.

Steve: I suggest getting the print version of it. So you’ve got the culture guide, and you can copy it and edit it and create your own. It will be one of the simplest but most powerful things you do to create a culture of success for your business.

Victoria: Awesome, awesome. Thank you so much. Yeah, we’ll put it.

Mark: We’ll put a link to that in the show notes. Yep.

Victoria: Perfect. Yes. So against Steve, you know we’ve known you for a long time. We’ve been on this a once a long time ago on before we started podcast back. And we’re just doing audio interviews. I think you’ve spoken at Roundtable Summit and we’re delighted to have you here again, and we’re going to have you on again someday in the near future.

Steve: For, for for having.

Victoria: You bet.

Mark: Thanks, Steve.

Victoria: You know, I love listening to Steve. He’s certainly passionate about what he believes. And isn’t he?

Mark: He’s very he’s passionate about everything. I think, you know, business, health, life. Family. Family. Yeah. His his favorite Disney princesses.

Steve: But.

Victoria: But, you know, it was talking about some really important stuff today. And, you know, we know we talk all the time here about culture, not only for the culture we want to create for our members and our clients, but the culture we want here in world headquarters. It’s a.

Mark: You know, it’s starting to really become obvious how central culture is to the success of a business. I mean, we’ve had so many topics in the past nearly two years now where the conversation ends up pointing back to culture, and it doesn’t necessarily even start there. You know, it’s it’s it’s definitely the center of success, in my opinion.

Victoria: You know, and I hope that our listeners will take this to heart, because I think that many, many of us, as Steve mentioned, accept what is there by default rather than being conscious about it by design. So writing out what you want as a business owner, sharing that with your team, letting the team give you some input.

Victoria: But, you know, driving it to be the culture you want it to be, it could make all the difference in the world for you.

Mark: I loved how he said one of his hobbies is to collect organizations. Yeah, it’s just such a a cool visual. I had my head. It’s not like he’s actually collecting them, but he’s just collecting organizations that do amazing things and and so that he can, you know, he can emulate, he can copy, he can he can take an inspiration from them.

Mark: It was really cool.

Victoria: Sort of like our, roundtables people. Right? We get to surround ourselves with these awesome organizations, you know, and learn from them and help share throughout the community.

Mark: It’s basically at the core of what roundtables is, right? Right. I mean, that’s we didn’t really even mentioned it because we introduced him as the author of this book, but he also runs around tables for, dentists, for dentists.

Victoria: The Crown Council.

Mark: Yeah, yeah, yeah. So really cool stuff. And the law of emotion is so true. I say it all the time in my marketing stuff because it’s everybody tries to sell on on facts and figures.

Victoria: But it’s pulling at the heartstrings. That works.

Victoria: All right, all right. Shall we shall we wrap this up?

Mark: Let’s wrap it up. It’s my birthday. I’m going to go have, a birthday party or something in my office. All right.

Victoria: That sounds exciting.

Mark: Yeah. Well. All right, well, hey, we want to thank you all for listening. Week in and week out, we want to thank Steve Anderson, a very busy guy that’s out talking everywhere all over the country, actually all over the world. And, for taking the time to, to share his tidbits of insight with us. I am Mark Harari

Victoria: And I’m Victoria Downing. See you next week.